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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Why I think Minoan rocks Hittite
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Topic Subject:Why I think Minoan rocks Hittite
Shiny
Clubman
posted 06-21-01 07:51 PM ET (US)         

I think that in a 1v1 medit map Minoan can defeat Hittite fairly easily assuming that the players are equal in ability and the map is fair. Usually on medit maps both people boom to 35-50 villagers. Since Minos ships cost less I can usually hit tool at 12-12:30 with a decent map and bronze by 15 minutes. Hittite players usually do one of the two things.

1. Go with a smaller 33-38 villager boom or
2. Get to tool a minute or more slower with an equal pop.

Stone.

I do a normal 3-dock boom and get about a 45 pop and hi the tool button at 10 min.
What I like to do is take 2 villagers around 7 minutes into the opponentís back yard. NOT my dock builders. After my dock builders have built 3 docks I make them explorers and have them find a good spot to wall. I also find opponents docks with one of my FBís.

Tool.
Once I hit tool I use my hotkeyed docks to make a SS in each make a stable with forwards and a market with woodies and research wood working, get the wall upgrade and wall with my former dock builders. I then get horse armor, tool working, and build a second stable cue up a scout in each and have those forward build houses. By now my SS 6 by now go for the enemies docks usually he has hit tool and will have 3 waiting for you. kill his SS and get as many FB before his second fleet comes out. I also put 5 peons on gold and get the gold mining up grade after woodworking is done. I now attack with my 2 scouts. My objectives are.

1.Kill enemy woodies
2. Find gold mines
3.Prevent walling (remember you tooled at least a minute earlier)

Your enemy will probably.

1. Try to bone your scouts

This is great kill lots of there villies =)

2.run away

Just follow and kill with your superior speed/LOS

3. Starts cranking clubbers and put down 1-2 more barracks.

This is great kill as many woodies as possible he wonít be able to kill you scouts till he gets the upgrades (225 food for upgrades +3 clubbers=375 food) when they are upgraded simply run and find goldmines/second woody camps. Sometimes theyíll go overboard thinking that itís going to be an all out tool rush. Just laugh and have fun killing 20 axers with 3 cav. This will also make them a little short on wood helping your SS attack.

Bronze

When you hit bronze I get the wood upgrade war galley upgrade pump out 2 cav followed by a few camels have forward build 3 acheries and research impies. GUARD the gold, hit wood then gold asap, letting them get gold gives them the chance to get ST, the only thing that stands a chance against compies. Keep cranking out camels compies + scouts relocate 2nd bases and take them out. All this pressure and them pumping CA rebuilding TC and another town really leaves there FBís wide open while minoís gold and food units donít cut into the sea game. It should be easy to take out the remainder of his fleet of galleys/FB. By now you will be saying your GGís.

Hopefully this will help some of ya; also Iíd love some feedback to make it better. Now obviously Iím not the best boomer and get beat with this strategy. Itís fairly difficult to execute this strategy because thereís so much to do so hope your play 1.0 or 1.5.

Shiny

AuthorReplies:
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 12:27 PM ET (US)     1 / 8       
Here are a few tidbits of info:

1) Mino should have a better econ either larger boom or quicker times through the Ages.

2) Hittite can defend well in Tool on sea. The +4 range makes Mino players respect them and usually won't attack till they have a larger navy. In a 1v1 you won't usually be docking by each other, so there is a little time to travel your navy to the opponent's coast. This is to the Hittite's advantage.

3) Hittite doesn't "need" gold. If they lose their gold piles... Chariot Archers, Chariots, and War Galleys can keep them in the game against Minos.

4) Hittite's +4 range makes them devistating on large maps. A Mino can't get across a land bridge without Cats if a Hittite player has a mass of War Galleys guarding it. There is nothing that can compete with them till Cats with Engineering. Typically there is a gold pile or two on the coast and a narrow neck of land on the edge of a map. Hittite can control these areas and make the Mino operate in a very small amount of land.

5) Gold is scarce in 1v1's compared to 3v3's. Typically players are used to using 2-3 players gold piles later in the game, where in a 1v1 your gold piles and maybe one opponent's is all you get. This is a huge advantage for the Hittite.

The two Medit 1v1's I lost a while back came down to gold. I was Mino once and Yam once. I wished so bad that I had Hittite in those games as I was playing them. Scythe would have led me to victory in both of those games.


**Having stated these things, I personally like to pick Mino's in 1v1's second to only Yam. If you play either of them "right" you should be able to take advantage of early bonuses, control the sea, and never allow the Hittite to grow.

See if "zipweb" will 1v1 you. He plays Hittite pretty well and it would be a good game for you I think.

Shiny
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 01:07 PM ET (US)     2 / 8       
3) Hittite doesn't "need" gold. If they lose their gold piles... Chariot Archers, Chariots, and War Galleys can keep them in the game against Minos.


Yes, they can still make bronze age units but with compies costing almost half of what CA cost and training much faster (not to mention not costing precious wood that is being use on the sea) I would rather have 30 compies than 17 CA. Shure they can still produce an army but not there killer ST.

2) Hittite can defend well in Tool on sea. The +4 range makes Mino players respect them and usually won't attack till they have a larger navy. In a 1v1 you won't usually be docking by each other, so there is a little time to travel your navy to the opponent's coast. This is to the Hittite's advantage.

I never would leave them alone you should get to tool faster and with more. You can pump ships from 4 Docks and since you know where there docks you can have your first 8 SS at there town when they have there first 3 pumpin out. I can understand ina 3v3 when they can mass a large navy. but if you use your speeed advantage by hitting them with 2-4 scouts in there woodies thats gonna cost em some wood for a new TC or barracks, and after they do either fight there way out or run then they will have lost time that they could be working and it will be more difficult for them to mass a navy AND build a new TC 2-3 archeries pump wood intensice CA and be able to keep up with mino's superior economy and superior military

I'm not doubting that there better ina 3v3 I actually alway pick em in 3v3 cause I like to use fast CA to raid enemy woodies.

4) Hittite's +4 range makes them devistating on large maps. A Mino can't get across a land bridge without Cats if a Hittite player has a mass of War Galleys guarding it. There is nothing that can compete with them till Cats with Engineering. Typically there is a gold pile or two on the coast and a narrow neck of land on the edge of a map. Hittite can control these areas and make the Mino operate in a very small amount of land.

well I would try to make shure they never got big on sea and I'd gaurd it with galleys spread up so I can see the whole coast. That way they wouldn't be able to get back on.


5) Gold is scarce in 1v1's compared to 3v3's. Typically players are used to using 2-3 players gold piles later in the game, where in a 1v1 your gold piles and maybe one opponent's is all you get. This is a huge advantage for the Hittite.

Ya I agree with you here hopefully there won't be much left of him 15 minutes into the bronze age and you did gaurd the gold mines didn't you? =).

Yes Zipweb is good with hittite I played him twice in a 1v1 I won one with mino and he won one with hittite.

though I wasn't using this strategy when I played him. I was walling in putting up 4-5 docks gettin big fast and goin all out boats.

Thanks for the help


FYI, always looking for someone to play intermediate lvl play throughout the day, just Email or ZM me Shiny_411 and Shiny_969@hotmail.com
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 02:30 PM ET (US)     3 / 8       
BTW what size map do you 1v1 on these days? Just wondering...

Anyways I have some pretty funny stories about gold mines on 1v1's.

I remember a game with RFR_Fireblade (I think it was him) where I was Yam and he was Mino. I had lost the initial sea battle, and his Compies came strolling into my woodies. I started to run my woodies and my fishing boats were hiding as well. I was not in the best of situations. He said "GG". That really made me mad.

I looked and realized I didn't lose much of my economy, my War Galleys ended up gaining an advantage as he started to focus more on the land attack. Within a couple minutes he had control of every gold pile on the map, and I had control of the sea. I went to achievements and saw I had the villager high by 15+ vills.

I boomed like crazy from several docks and TC's that I placed in a row by forests on the coasts. I fought and won a gold pile on his coast on a narrow neck of land. My Galleys protected it and I sent a big crew of villagers (15-20) to go get the gold.

During all of this I would use Tool Bowmen to kill his Compies (very much not recommended unless you HAVE to), but I never allowed him to get a mass of anything. You really don't want to know the ratio of Tool Bowmen it takes to try and kill a group of Minoan Compies...lol. He would kill some woodies, all of my bowmen, but he could never overpower me.

I got some Tool Bowmen into his woodies in his town and got them thinned out till Compies and Stone Throwers were built.

Because of my fishing, I had 2-3k of food, so as soon as I got 800 gold I Ironed. I sent villagers behind Horse Archers and Cav to gold piles. We eventually fought over every gold pile but one that he took early in his town. That was a great game. I think however that it ended in a sync or disconnect.

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 03:34 PM ET (US)     4 / 8       
Help, 2 RM threads and I'm not getting a single one!!!!!!!!

Someone tell me how the hell I can get from a 19 min bronze on medit to a 15 mins bronze without confusing me!


CenturionZ_1
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[This message has been edited by CenturionZ_1 (edited 06-22-2001 @ 03:37 PM).]

Boneser again
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 03:47 PM ET (US)     5 / 8       
Damn Blitz that is just amazing. What always impresses me about the best RoR players is how they actually can think their way out of a bad situation. Probably 95% of players including some good ones would have got flustered, quickly used up their resources and then just as quickly hit the resign button. I'll bet he was laughing and figured you for down and out when he saw those toolies,until they kept coming and coming and coming.

And I am curious as to the ratio. 5 to 1 maybe?

Blitz I'm putting you down in my book as one of the best to play this game. Popov may be faster but you have a real mind for this game.

Hats off to ya!

Oh yeah, and thanks for posting these great stories.

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 05:10 PM ET (US)     6 / 8       
Boneser:

LOL...Don't put me down in any book of greats of RoR. The only map I dominate on is Medit and I am just another player on Conti or Hillz.

As for the Bowmen to Compie ratio... I think it was higher than 5 to 1. I know I had a lot of Ranges (5-6) by the shore booming nonstop, and they wouldn't last long to his Compies. I had a big group of Bowmen by his 3 ranges.. and each time 3 Compies popped out I would lose some. I remember I even had to bone a couple Compies that game to get him from killing more woodies...lol. The only thing that saved me was he never had a big group of them or I would have been screwed.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 05:22 PM ET (US)     7 / 8       
BlitzkreigComin:
"There is nothing that can compete with [hittite war galleys] till Cats with Engineering. "

Not quite. Massed mino compies can compete with massed hittite galleys. They can compete with triremes once you have alchemy, too.

On the open seas however, I agree.

I also agree completely that gold is a major issue for mino in 1v1s, where trade isn't an option.

P.S. zipweb's still around? wow, I really should make more time to get on the zone... see how many familiar names are still hanging around...

Shiny:
Mino vs hittite is an uphill battle even in 1v1. You have to beat them down early and keep them there, else you're screwed.


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UrMud - online community in an ancient history world
Shiny
Clubman
posted 06-22-01 06:43 PM ET (US)     8 / 8       
The setts I play are

Medit 1v1 RM
map size: large
no reveal
default resources
Conquest

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