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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Trainers
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Topic Subject:Trainers
noble
Clubman
posted 05-19-01 10:26 AM ET (US)         
Why do people have to use these things we should all be on a level playing field eg. today i played against some person in a default resource start when he tooled in 6 minutes. Wow i thought he must be tool rushing. I prepar for the rush when at 13 he bronzes then at 18 he irons. At 22 10 cats followed by 15 phalanxs enter my town. I noticed a small island out on the ocean so i set transport my last villagers to this island when i get blasted by 20+ tiremes. Well the fog of war clears with the words "you are defeated" and i check how many villagers he has well he had 18 of them with no fishing boats. He also had another 10 fully upgraded cents ready in his base. well this game lasted only 31 minutes. Afterwards i accused him of cheating but he only gave a dumb reply of "maybe i cheat maybe i dont". I know i should of taken a screen shot but i forgot all about it. Will anyone give some ignsight into why these people use trainers.
AuthorReplies:
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 05-19-01 04:23 PM ET (US)     1 / 11       
I remember a game where we were kicking some butt on a Medit 3v3. I sent in like 40 Chariot Archers and went back watching my econ. I went to find all my CA's a minute later, and there was just a trail of death. Pretty soon I saw those babies in diapers on tricycles killing everything.

I was pretty mad. Up to that point I wondered if people had ever cheated against me, but never that obvious! I had games where I counted up units and upgrades and it didn't equal gold they had mined or trib they had received. That really made me mad.

As for why people do it... they are just immature and don't like to lose I think. I bet most cheaters don't play the game on the Zone for more than a few weeks, because they probably lose interest. They would have little reason to practice and research economies when they eat all of that pepperoni pizza.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-19-01 11:10 PM ET (US)     2 / 11       
BlitzkreigComin:
... trade boats? They generate gold, and I'm not sure it's added to the 'gold mined' number. Also if you start early (like after seeing you have no gold mines), it can really add up.
 
18 min iron w/18 villies (no FBs) with the troops noble mentions? I find it hard to believe they didn't cheat. Lots of easily accessible pre-RoR shorefish *might* provide the food fast enough, but there's also wood and gold involved in getting to iron and making cents+cats+remes... extremely unlikely.
SBE
Clubman
posted 05-20-01 05:39 AM ET (US)     3 / 11       
If he was cheating which i believe he was then he's doing a *iss poor job of it, cos i can iron in 22mins against the comp and if he's using the cheats he should have easily ironed in about 12mins regardless of whether he's on the zone or against the comp, and got the kind of army you reach in dm's.

As for the cheats they're just a bunch of losers, even though they always win

PS. has anybody beaten someone who used cheats, and really rubbed salt in their wounds, cos i've not myself, but then i can't say i've played against cheats (as far as i can remember).


CENTURIONZSBE aka SBESQUIRE, THISISYESTERDAY, EBS and SBE
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Enriquillo
Clubman
posted 05-20-01 06:01 AM ET (US)     4 / 11       
maybe he was trying to be subtle
12 minute iron is way too obvious.

I've been beat before by multiple chevy/rocketlaunchers in under a minute
If I was gonna cheat (and I won't) I would try to stick to my normal advance times and moderately use the extra resources and try to win without him/her noticing.
At least you keep up the illusion of a competitive fair game.


"It has been difficult because we have so often been on the attack and not had the opportunity to defend" Yannick Jauzion.
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 05-20-01 07:05 AM ET (US)     5 / 11       
Now some people try to accuse others of cheating. I was playing this guy who did 'Hari Kari' and killed himself and accused ME of cheating!!!! One funny thing was he was player 8 and you can't do kill8...

Cheaters come in 3 categories:

Expert cheaters: These people cannot be bothered to wait for their resources to come or explore the map and secretly use resource cheats and no fog. No one knows he ahs cheated because he does not make blaitant obvious cheats. They do this to get rating points, and use very sophiscated trainers.

Rookie cheaters: These people again cannot be bothered to play properley and cheat to get rating points... They, however, make crucial mistakes (i.e. steroids or type peperoni pizza) which uncovers their guilt. They use not so sophisticated trainers.

Annoying cheaters: These people cheat for fun. The like annoying people and don't care if they are caught. They accuse otehr people of cheating and they flood a lot.


CenturionZ_1
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butch26
Clubman
posted 05-25-01 06:46 PM ET (US)     6 / 11       
I found this one time on the aok forum. Doesn't it hold true for aoe as well? I thought thats what the last patch was supposed to have done.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How It Works
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What a trainer does is take a variable in aok like the food, wood, gold, and stone variables and changes them, usually by increments very high such as 1000. Thus giving you advantage without having to type in "robin hood" or "cheese steak jimmy" everytime you wnt some extra resources.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why NOT To Worry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In multiplayer games, where trainers really count, imo it is impossible to use a trainer. Age Of Kings has checks to prevent the use of trainers. If we were having a 1v1 over the zone, that is a peer-to-peer connection (correct me if i am wrong). Our two caomputer are constantly pinging each other with information like units on the map, changing variables (such as a depleted stone pile, and most importantly player resources. So lets say i alt-tab my playing screen, open up that "awesome" trainer of mine with the name of like "CrAckzDeViLz" or something on it. Then i was like "oh i'll just give myself 10,000 stone and circle his base with castles." So ic click the 1000 stone buttin 10 times and i get my stone. Then, next time my computer talks with yours, yours says "uh oh, we have separate counts for your stone, something has gone terrible wrong." Next it flips out, screems like a little child, and the games goes Oos (out of sync).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Intent Of Trainers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The problem is that people using trainers are mostly not in it for the extra resources. If you are in a rated game and are losing badly and dont want to lose those points from your game, why not purposely Oos using a trainer and get no points taken off. This way you dont lose the game, and dont lose points. People who do this should be labeled cheaters and nnot played with anymore, the only problem is, not every game that goes Oos is caused by trainers, so its impossible to distinguish between the two. However just when the tide turns your way and you are about to take down someones last castle, or 20 elephants are ripping his town apart, thats when the game "mysteriously" goes Oos. This is the problem and as of now, there is no wat to stop it.
(Idea Contributed by Trouble_4_U)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-25-01 07:42 PM ET (US)     7 / 11       
butch26:
Damn, you mean some of those games that went oos when I was winning may have been because of trainers?

Now you know why I never played much in rated or tourneys...


Oh also some trainers don't affect resources. I think there was one where they could see the whole map as if they had done 'reveal map' and 'no fog'... and you wouldn't even know about it. They would just always seem to know what you were up to.

butch26
Clubman
posted 05-25-01 07:59 PM ET (US)     8 / 11       
yea, that could possibly be why they oos'd. But, like i said, that was for aok, i couldn't say for sure that ror works the the same way. I was just assuming the last patch incorporated that.
Yes, your right about the reveal map and no fog cheats, not to mention the "cartoon" cheats. From what i've gathered there is probably no way to stop those. But at least the cartoon cheats are very obvious (and subject to screen shots) and the reveal and no fog arn't quite as bad as your opponent haveing unlimited resources. thats probably the reason aok didn't include many "cartoon" cheats.
SaSa408
Clubman
posted 05-25-01 08:12 PM ET (US)     9 / 11       
Question: When you set up multiplayer (or single player RM) you are given options, and one is "reveal map."

Is that considered cheating? In multiplayer it is agreed on by all. In RM, it looks like it is a decent option with no shame attached.

What are we talking about?

I don't know about trainers, but I would like some clarification on the reveal map thing.

Sara

butch26
Clubman
posted 05-25-01 08:31 PM ET (US)     10 / 11       
Reveal map is where you can see the whole map, and terrain, but not enemy units. ie, no black. If when the setting are being decided in a game, if everyone agrees to have the map revealed i wouldn't consider it cheating. But, if say 6 people are playing, and only one can see the map without exploring (through the use of a trainer)-------- (being able to tell where all the resources are)----- then that one person would have an unfair advantage and would be cheating. I think this would also apply to fog of war and the other cheats. It Is fair if everone agrees and knows before the game starts, but unfair if only one person can do those things because he is using a trainer. I would also consider it cheating if everyone agreed to a certian set setting and the host changed them seconds before the game starts in the hopes no one else notices. For example cheking the box for "allow cheats" then launching the game hoping that no one else saw.
Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 05-29-01 08:21 AM ET (US)     11 / 11       
'the reveal map thing' When the last aoe/ror patch came out I was very happy and gratefull. The resourses cheating was stopped and the farm bug (unlimited free food) was also stopped. Better late than never. Only bad thing was the reveal map hack. The program was sent to the zone, MS and ES. They didn't have time to include the anti-coding into the AoK expansions or fix AoE/RoR.

What the map hack does is allows the user to see all resourses and the enemy buildings and troops...even in NO REVEAL. Also even if someone coops on the map hack user they can't see what he sees (game looks normal to them) The map hack is only on the users view.

The only way to tell if someone uses this map hack is to force them to take a screenshot of the game at a completely random time. Then the weirdness of seeing all the resourse will show up. The time has to be random because they can quickly alt-tab and shut off the hack. That would make screens look perfectly normal. I posted some screens of how the map hack works on some website to show MS over a year ago. I lost the url, if I find it I'll post. Best thing is to just enjoy the game, many good people play that don't cheat. Maybe the zone added coding to stop the map hack from working on the zone...dunno, I have not tested it again and I lost the will to keep pushing after the patch was released.


p/s editing because I found the url that I posted for proof on the day the hack was sent to them. so very long ago http://members.fortunecity.com/cheaterssuck/index.html

[This message has been edited by Tenaciti (edited 05-29-2001 @ 08:31 AM).]

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