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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » rts3
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Topic Subject:rts3
butch26
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 02:14 AM ET (US)         
Well, i've seen a great deal of discussion about this in the cought*aok*cough,cough forum, but none here. It is of course possible that an extensive debate has already occured, but incase not, what is everybodies oppinions of it? I hear it will play like the last two age games (vills, buildings, techs, ect) but will be in 3d. Ive also heard it will not be a continuation of the age seris, as es may not have ms publish it; hence the name rts2 and not aoe3
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Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 10:24 AM ET (US)     1 / 13       
butch:

Maybe I have been under a rock or something. Could you provide a link or something to rts3. I am not sure I know what you are referring to.


Knowledge is not power until it is formulated into an organized plan of action.
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 10:48 AM ET (US)     2 / 13       
AoE 3 has already been discussed. I will top up the thread.

CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
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butch26
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 04:39 PM ET (US)     3 / 13       
leper, most of the information i have gathered on it is from sandy himself. If you are interested, go to the aok forum (conquers) and look for threads started by sandy. the reason its being refferd to a "rts3" is because ensemble may not have microsoft publish it, and ms owns the age of empires name. As of now, the game is in the very early stages of playtesting, and sandy has not been very forthcommin with info. He has said it will be in 3d though,and will not be a remake of age or ror. I also seem to remember him saying it will be history based. That is the main thing i was wondering how people felt about. What would 3d rts be like? how would it affect random map, and what would the scenerio editor be like, as designing 3d maps is much,much,much more difficult.

[This message has been edited by butch26 (edited 03-24-2001 @ 04:43 PM).]

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 04:52 PM ET (US)     4 / 13       
I don't think the hardware for a 3d interface is widespread enough yet.
butch26
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 06:24 PM ET (US)     5 / 13       
its not just the interface, the whole game is going to be 3d. Just think of how slow it will get in a 6 or 8 player game with a 200 pop!!! but what do you mean the hardware is not there? people have been playing 3d games for a long time now, and engines like unreal can run on low end machines if tweaked right. a 3d accelerated vid card is of course required though.

[This message has been edited by butch26 (edited 03-24-2001 @ 06:29 PM).]

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 07:38 PM ET (US)     6 / 13       
butch26:
I wasn't talking cpu and ram; I was talking VR goggles and gloves. Let's face it, monitors and mouses are 2d apparatus not 3d, and it's just about impossible to create a simple convenient 3d interface with them. Just look at how clumbsy and complicated 1st person shooters are interface-wise. Legend of Zelda only needed 7 buttons.
 
butch26
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 07:51 PM ET (US)     7 / 13       
so do you think the decision to go 3d was a mistake?
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-24-01 09:40 PM ET (US)     8 / 13       
I understand what Wedsaz means and agree to an extent - the combination of keys and mouse in first person shooters I don't find that bad but it is certainly inefficient in many ways - and I can see it being quite awkward at times trying to control individual units in a true 3D panoramic view - but I'm still interested in seeing how they do it.

For scenario designers any 'map tricks' will sure be interesting - having something that looks cool from all angles - wow.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 03-25-01 09:00 AM ET (US)     9 / 13       
Now, let's imagine AoE3 or RTS3 is 3D.

How are you going to micromanage each of your 200 units on the internet?

How is the landscape going to be generated.

How are you goign to explore?

There is a thread out somewhere where wedsaz was discussing 3D. The link is:

The Thread on 3D


CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
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CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 03-25-01 01:47 PM ET (US)     10 / 13       
LoL!

I admit, alot of 3d RTS have been a flop. And its because your mouse and monitor are 2d..

Rick Goodman has gotten around this problem with Empire Earth.

The game is all 3D. meaning buildings, units, terrain, are all a 3D polygon figure.
BUT,
EE is played from 1 view. You can not rotate your camera.
So, game play is exactly the same as AoE, except units and objects are 3D polygons.

As for lag, youd be surprised, it all depends on how the game is optimized. EE, and other 3D rts, lag about the same as RoR.

The good things about 3d are things like.
Walls actualy stoping units form being shot. The height of the wall matters when being attacked by bowmen.
All missle weapons being 'area effect' in the sense that,
if you shot an arrow at a guy, and it misses him and hits the guy next to him, the guy next to him actualy gets hurt.
Units, when moving, move alot smoother. If they change directions, they actualy turn around instead of just suddenly facing the other way.

The list goes on and on.
But if done right, 3D RTS is a great thing.


..::Ace::..
..::o0ace0o@hotmail.com:|:ICQ: 53704638::..
..::CoWebmaster of Empire Earth X :|: Admin of EEX Forums::..
..:: Proud Finder of Larry's Pants ::..
..::"Stay back, or I shall smite thee with my Advanced Heal!" ::..
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 03-25-01 03:55 PM ET (US)     11 / 13       
CoMBaT_Villager:
1. "Walls actualy stoping units form being shot." - This can and has been done in some 2d games.
2. "All missle weapons being 'area effect'" (snip) - Again, easily done in 2d.
3. "Units, when moving, move alot smoother." - Do I even need to say it?
 
The only benefit I could see from the game being 3d is the possibility of tunneling (and fighting in those tunnels). However, this could be (and has been) done in 2d with an underground layer connecting to the surface at certain points (='build entrance/exit here') and having the pathfinding take it into account.
 
Rather than work so hard at building a 3d environment that the interface can't really use, I think the programming time would be better spent improving the gameplay and AIs. Imagine if not only your units didn't get lost, but 'requisitioned' empty idle transports (unless you set them to 'await further orders', let's say) to cross rivers when the shallows are just too far. Adding more features like archer shots taking 1 wood every time they shoot an arrow, building bridges and moats and spike traps, units with multiple weapons (pilum+sword, spear+bow, etc) and the brains to choose correctly. There's so much to be done, so why break something that works?
CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 03-26-01 03:57 AM ET (US)     12 / 13       
yes its can be done in 2d..
but thats not the point.
the point is,
3D RTS are not something to fear. They arnt something that never works right.
As long as they are made right. And Rick Goodman SHOULD know how to do it right. (look what he did with aoe)

..::Ace::..
..::o0ace0o@hotmail.com:|:ICQ: 53704638::..
..::CoWebmaster of Empire Earth X :|: Admin of EEX Forums::..
..:: Proud Finder of Larry's Pants ::..
..::"Stay back, or I shall smite thee with my Advanced Heal!" ::..
the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-26-01 06:36 PM ET (US)     13 / 13       
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