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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Hey
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Topic Subject:Hey
The_Eternal_Newbie
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 00:42 AM ET (US)         
I'm from AoKH. Anyway- what the heck? People still play Aoe?

Why? <g>


_______________Alex the unabashed Turk-lover_______________
|Winner of both Sammy's AND Chooch's Pretty damn cool post awards!|
|-------------->Mmm...cheesy<--------------|
Official OD Government Minister of Newbies
... and a very proud Tonto.
AuthorReplies:
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 01:05 AM ET (US)     1 / 26       
1. Civs and units that aren't all the same, but widely different.
2. Fighting that often starts in tool and lasts to the end.
3. Sometimes games don't last 10 mins, others go on for hours and hours.
4. No TC rushing.
5. The buildings and units look brighter, and you can see more of what's going on at a single glance.
6. The units you send in aren't automatically slaughtered by TCs and a tenth their number of counter-units. The defender has to fight too.
7. You don't need the latest computer to play it. If you do have a recent computer and a good connection, it should run very smoothly.
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 02:05 AM ET (US)     2 / 26       
AoK stinks

Would think of something more intelligent to say but I can't be bothered.

Please no profanity-Angel Soc


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Angel Socrateius (edited 03-21-2001 @ 07:17 PM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-20-01 07:12 AM ET (US)     3 / 26       
Good point - silly question, silly answer.
Centurion
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 08:32 AM ET (US)     4 / 26       
AoK doesn't suck but neither does AoE

GlobalChimp
I don't cry. But my guitar does.
Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:13 AM ET (US)     5 / 26       
***ROFLOL***SUCKS ASS***ROFLOL***

Phill: Btw, I concur.


Knowledge is not power until it is formulated into an organized plan of action.
The_Eternal_Newbie
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 12:52 PM ET (US)     6 / 26       
I don't mean to insult AoE, I'm just looking for answers here.
1. Civs and units that aren't all the same, but widely different.
Eh? I think UU's alone adds a diversity of units that AoE never had.

2. Fighting that often starts in tool and lasts to the end.
Is this particularly good?

3. Sometimes games don't last 10 mins, others go on for hours and hours.
Point being? AoK always lasts for more than an hour <g>.

4. No TC rushing.
In The Conquerors, TC rushing becomes almost obsolete.

5. The buildings and units look brighter, and you can see more of what's going on at a single glance.
Eh, go ahead and use a graphics argument, I could argue as well that in AoE it's easy to lose a unit behind wood <g>

6. The units you send in aren't automatically slaughtered by TCs and a tenth their number of counter-units. The defender has to fight too.
In TC, a Town Center does provide a mighty weapon, but, uh, get a trebuchet, you know?

7. You don't need the latest computer to play it. If you do have a recent computer and a good connection, it should run very smoothly.
Well, this I can't argue with, but I'm pretty sure most people have a 400MHz and up computer at this point.

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-20-01 01:18 PM ET (US)     7 / 26       
Newbies:
Well, some ppl didn't get AOE/ROR as long ago as you did and they aren't tierd of it yet as you apparently are.
Some people like to read the plays by the old Greek dramatists like Sophocles of over 2000 years ago - enough plays have been written since but that doesn't mean that the old ones aren't any good anymore.
In my view most music produced after the sixties is hardly worth listening to (okay, there are a few exceptions) - just because a game is new doesn't mean it's good or better than what is already there.
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 01:23 PM ET (US)     8 / 26       
The problem with a lot of kids these days is that they are brought up in such a superficial environment that just because a game has prettier graphics and more features they think it is automatically better. What makes a game timeless is gameplay, and AoK is too technical, too boring and too long. It has none of the magic of AoE or RoR, I don't get that timeless sense of wonder when I play it and I couldn't care less how much more sophisticated it is - I just find it dull, dull, dull. They went too far.

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 02:57 PM ET (US)     9 / 26       
My views:

AoK is good but something called a TC and a castle ruins any chance of a quick rush. Slow production means a boring DM and AoK is too slow on my comp.

Plus the civs are too similar.


But the biggest reason I like AoE, it's fast, controls are quick compact and games are short!


(People are also more civil.)


CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
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wedsaz
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 02:59 PM ET (US)     10 / 26       
The_Eternal_Newbie:
Have you ever tried AoE or RoR? I noticed most who argue against it never tried it.
 
1. How often do most AoKers use UUs? AoE's civ bonuses and tech trees affect the outcome of almost every game in a major way. (if you don't believe me, try greek vs shang in RM, and the same in DM)
2. Well, the other option is you can farm for hours only yo lob trebuchet stones at each other for a few minutes. So my answer to "is this particularly good" would be yes. It's a wargame, not a farming simulation.
3. The point being that 2v2s often don't get to iron (=imperial) and 1v1s often don't get to bronze (=castle). What happens before iron isn't just filler - your whole civilization can disappear before you can even research the wheel, if you're not careful.
4. What's this "almost" about? Also, from what I've seen on the strategy threads, TCs are still an important part of any AoK:TC army.
5. I don't really care much about graphics myself (else I wouldn't be building a huge text-based game would I?). I just threw that one in for those who do.
6. Trebs aren't available until imperial, which is a long way away. Even once you get there, other units aren't all that important so long as you cover the map with TCs and trebs.
7. I'm on a 200mhz, upgraded this summer from 60mhz. I still have my old 286, and a couple computers in between - all of which are still functional. I think you can guess what kind of RAM I have. I'm far from being the only one.
 
So, to sum it up: the adrenaline pump starts early, you have to guess not only how your opponent will attack but also when, not over-reacting to bluffs, and be ready in advance for the big fight because a handful of counters won't be enough. You can learn to slaughter someone fairly easily. It doesn't take 3 hours to find out you did something wrong - 15 mins and you're asking for a rematch.
 
Think of what people will say about AoK when the next big thing (AoE III?) comes up, and what you might say in its defense. It's coming, whether you like it or not.
Caesar Constintine
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 04:43 PM ET (US)     11 / 26       
I agree Wedsaz

BtW; I heard about a Star Wars game made by Enesemble is comming out: http://www.lucasarts.com/static/pr/battleground.htm

If this is true, I hope that noone goes to the AoK forum anymore, just so everyone there will know how it feels- going to some forum that noone knows exsist

I play AoK, but I don't like it as much as AoE.

RoR runs as well on this computer (200 MHz, 64 megs, 4 meg video card.) as well as my moms (800 MHz, 128 megs, 16? meg video card.)

If you are sincere, and just politely asking why we are here, then you are welcome to stay-start playing AoE agian as well, you'll be amazed at how good- and differant it is than AoK...

If you were joking around and doing some of that infamous AoK forum people flaming....

[This message has been edited by Caesar Constintine (edited 03-20-2001 @ 05:10 PM).]

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 06:08 PM ET (US)     12 / 26       
Back when I started playing AoE I only had a 166. It would lag a bit when there were big battles, but it still ran OK most of the time, and was also one of the few games around that didn't need a 3D card. When AoK came out I had a 266 by then, got it and it just crawled.

AoK addressed a lot of the shortcomings of its predecessors in many ways - triggers are a lot easier to work with than pers, for example (good grief, a point of view that doesn't involve rushing, is this man well?) - but they made the mistake of going from one extreme to the other, and made it too programmable IMO, and put in what they probably felt were improvements but in reality cut off half their audience - AoE and RoR can appeal to people other than hardcore strategy fans, AoK cannot and does not, plus they made it far more resource hungry. Why people always have to go from one extreme to the other is a mystery to me, it's as if they are blind to any kind of balance or moderation - "Oh dear, we don't like this, I know, let's do the complete opposite" - Um, no, sorry, doesn't work. Aok lost it for me by trying to be too clever.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

butch26
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 09:09 PM ET (US)     13 / 26       
well, having just finished playing aok for a couple weeks, i've got to say, the game is incredible. Now don't get me wrong, i have no intention of bashing aoe\ror as its still one of the all time greats in my mind, but aok has so much more. My first impression was that es took a lot of things that people diskliked in aoe\ror, (many disscussed here) and fixed them. They also added a lot of thing people wanted (again, much of it mentioned here). I wouldnt call the game rescorce hungry, unless your talking about resources of your pc. and if you are, a 400mhz with 64 mb ram is not much to me. On an average game, it is nothing to collect 70,000-100,000 of each resource except gold and stone, those are usualy around 30,000 and 10,000 respectively. The ai has been realy beefed up, as it now forward builds and does other player like things. (not as well as a human player, but a HUGE improvment over aoe). I too thought the buildings would be too strong, but they realy arn't. Its just balance. Buildings are not hard to destroy, but you have to do it right.(trebs) You need seige to smash builing quickly, and troops to protect it . And that is probably the best part of the game, siege has finnaly been reigned in. Its still very powerfull, but now is much more vulnerable. (much as i've seen suggested here 1,000 times.) Finnaly, the game is about more than builing 150 archers in less than 12 minutes. But, i'm not posting this to praise the game, just to say everone should give it a try. I too thought it would be bad, but after i watched a recorded game with the sherrif and two other es employees against 5 others, it simply blew me away.
On a separate note, tc rushing is pretty much dead. es put an end to it with the patch. It was a problem when the game was first released, but is now fixed. Rushing is still done, but not usualy in the dark (stone) age. It usualy begins in feudal (tool) age. Ive seen a few recorded games where it was done very effectivly. Yes you can put your vills in your tc, but then your econ goes to hell, and you wont be around for but a few more minutes. Add to all this the market, formations, an almost never ending supply of gold, and you have one heck of a game.
Opaque Depressant
Banned
posted 03-20-01 09:24 PM ET (US)     14 / 26       
Buuuuuull... Aok isn't too technical. It's as simple as AoE once you get used to it. Everything just fits in place. You do the stuff without even thinking about what you're doing (micro managment speaking)...

And on a 500 MHz, 320 RAM, I don't notice a lag in AoK

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 09:31 PM ET (US)     15 / 26       
By resource hungry I did mean the amount of PC resources - I have above the spec you mentioned but getting into 'mine's bigger than yours' discussions is pathetically childish so I won't bother.

I'm not knocking anyone who likes the game and wouldn't dream of stopping them. And I did try it myself, for over two months, I really tried to like it but I just couldn't - it sits on my shelf gathering dust and I will probably sell it. The other points still stand as the only people who praise it are heavily into strategy - there is not one fan of it who is not normally into that kind of game, as there is with AoE, and I know I am not the only one who thinks it is too technical to have widespread appeal (having lots of people who like it is not the same thing) - I remember talking to Zen and he told me about his lunch with some guys from another software house and they had exactly the same feeling towards it. And the AoKH forum is hardly an advert for the game - full of dumb little mouthy brats every time I've looked.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, what they've done to the game, but it's still as valid a reason for not liking it as it is for being a fan.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

butch26
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 09:54 PM ET (US)     16 / 26       
Well, different strokes ect, ect. Your right (i think) about the aok forums, as i have never posted there myself. I still don't consider it too tecnical. Maybee a little, but i believe es did it to prevent the aoe effect of only seeing archers, chariots, and hcat every game. its nice to use\need barracks units for a change. I dont understand what you mean by wide spread acceptance. If more people bought it than aoe, and more people play online (ie, still interested in it) than aoe, how can it not have widespread acceptance? (that not an aok sells more so its better line, just dont understand your reasoning.) And as for the computer thing, it wasn't an attempt at "mine is bigger than yours", i just dont think in a time of 1.5 ghz processors and 128mb standard ram that a 400mhz 64mb is that steep a reqirement. In closeing, i still play aoe/ror, and think it definitly rocks, and will probably always play it, but now i can happily say the same of aok.
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:03 PM ET (US)     17 / 26       
Butch:

I wasn't actually having a go at you ;-) and I am happy for you that you enjoy all the games. By widespread appeal I mean that something has the ability to appeal to people who have a wide range of different tastes, not the number of people who like it. The difference? If you have something that is blue and a million people like it because it is blue, that is a big audience but a narrow one. If you have something that is red and it only has a few fans, and some of those few are fans of other colours as well, then it has more widespread appeal because it appeals to a wider range of people, not just those into that colour. Got me now?


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 03-20-2001 @ 10:07 PM).]

butch26
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:06 PM ET (US)     18 / 26       
i figured as much. but anyway, you ever play fps games?
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:09 PM ET (US)     19 / 26       
fps?

Enlighten me - I maybe know it by a different name.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

butch26
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:10 PM ET (US)     20 / 26       
firs person shooters, ie doom, quake ect.
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:17 PM ET (US)     21 / 26       
Ah, with you now.

Yes, I've played and completed the following;

Doom, Doom2, Heretic, Hexen, Quake, Quake 2, Half Life, Half Life Opposing Force and Unreal.

Oh yeah, and Duke Nukem - still one of my favourites, mainly for the sense of humour that runs through it.

Since we seem to be posting within minutes of each other, r u on ICQ? If u r my number is 72543448.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 03-20-2001 @ 10:19 PM).]

butch26
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:23 PM ET (US)     22 / 26       
no, but i have to go soon anyway. Just asking cause if you like those games (i know a lot of people dont) try deus ex (game of the year). It will blow you away. I was alway an rts guy myself, but got it as a gift and gave it a try. It will probably change the way fps games are made.
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-20-01 10:25 PM ET (US)     23 / 26       
Thanks, I'll give that a try. I did go off them for a while as they all got to be a bit samey and I wondered how many times they needed to remake the same game.

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 03-21-01 01:09 PM ET (US)     24 / 26       
I remember the first time I played AoE. It was absolutely magical. I have never been in such amazement of a game before or since. I had a 133 / 16 Ram...thus things were slow. Regardless of how choppy, I played on. I was mesmerized. Finally a game that lived up to all my expectations.

I imagine that someone who missed Aoe/RoR and went straight to AoK might feel the same as I did. However, I find it amazing that someone who played through AoE/RoR can play AoK/TC with the same wonder and awe.

I have played AoK...quite alot in fact. It has many points I find superior to AoE/RoR. Unfortunately though, none of these things make the game "better" than its older brothers...only different. I hope that makes sense. To each his own...for this leper the "magic" will always be in AoE.


Knowledge is not power until it is formulated into an organized plan of action.

[This message has been edited by Sumerian Leper (edited 03-21-2001 @ 01:11 PM).]

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-21-01 01:44 PM ET (US)     25 / 26       
Amen to that.

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-21-01 02:16 PM ET (US)     26 / 26       
I concur - couldn't say it better myself. Never played AOK but the AOK music must be terrible when I think how much worse the ROR music is than that of AOE
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