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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Topic Subject: Why you really like AoE/RoR better that AoK/TC
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posted 02-23-01 07:51 PM ET (US)   
All right. I'll start.

I like AoE/RoR better because the whole thing has integrity and spirit.

And I love starting with Nomad or Stone Age. Just great humble beginnings on which to build.

And no overlarge buildings. True, tiny docks, but when the fishing ships cry "Delay" as they are created, I love it!

To tell the truth, if I play RM in AoK, I win more easily than I do in AoE. Maybe that is why I keep coming back to AoE/RoR. It draws me back for more. There is more of a challenge somehow.

True, AoK has more "advanced" improvements. And TC has footprints in the snow. Nice.

But my head is not turned.

And last of all, I love AoE/RoR because I can talk about it here on this forum!

But these aren't all of the reasons AoE/RoR sticks with us, I know.

What about you?


posted 02-23-01 08:41 PM ET (US)     1 / 29  
The time line it takes place, and the cool looks, and it only take afew hours to learn kinda how to play.
posted 02-23-01 08:42 PM ET (US)     2 / 29  
I like that period of history (sumeria to rome). It's probably the most varied yet balanced period of history.
Besides, AoE has always been full of complacent self-proclaimed experts, and I love finding the flaws in their single-minded strats. It seems to take most of them at least a dozen games to realize their *strat* has been beaten, not just their skill. Damn I want to play again.
Have you ever tried UrMud?
posted 02-23-01 10:12 PM ET (US)     3 / 29  
I tried to like AoK, I really did, I played it for 2 months hoping it would grow on me, and it didn't - it's too technical, too boring and too bloody long ;-) Somewhere along the line they lost the magic, it's not even more of the same, it's warped beyond recognition and only its name makes it a sequel.

AoE/RoR have their faults but Aok went too far the other way (and still isn't faultless). Triggers are great but make the whole thing too programmable i.e. cool to start with but ultimately boring. With the changes made since RoR they have lost the appeal of the original - now it only appeals to die hard wargamers and strategy tech heads - AoE and RoR get played by people who are not normally into wargames who also tend to stick with it for a while, very unusual for this type of game and probably the most underrated part of AoE/RoR, so they have a smaller but wider audience, rather than a huge but narrow one. Despite what many people think size isn't everything. I'd rather see 20 individuals than 100 clones ;-)

The time period counts for a lot too - somehow things that happened 2000-6000 years ago have a bit more magic to them than anything that happened afterwards.

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

posted 02-24-01 10:39 AM ET (US)     4 / 29  
I agree with Wedsaz.. the period of history.

also i like the colors better in aoe/ror


posted 02-24-01 06:35 PM ET (US)     5 / 29  
Hey Sasa,

I don't really know why, but I find ROR so much more fun to play than AOK/TC - probably cos I know it so much better.

Have you started playing on the zone yet? You should really get into internet gaming in ROR, you'll love it.




posted 02-25-01 08:32 AM ET (US)     6 / 29  
Hey Wedsaz,

I just tried UrMud. There are no graphics!

Why do you like it?


posted 02-25-01 10:59 AM ET (US)     7 / 29  

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

posted 02-25-01 11:18 AM ET (US)     8 / 29  



posted 02-25-01 01:14 PM ET (US)     9 / 29  
"I love starting with Nomad or Stone Age. Just great humble beginnings on which to build."
UrMud is of a category of games called "muds", multi-player dungeons which are usually text-based. It's a bit like reading a book, except you can affect the outcome, and they tend to grow into communities over time. One thing I like about it over AoE is that when you quit and come back the next day, you can still what you gained before to grow some more.
Many like UrMud over other muds because of the time period, like you said, humble beginnings on which to build. So I thought I'd mention it in case you might like it.
posted 02-25-01 01:32 PM ET (US)     10 / 29  
Well, AoE is great for people with a limit of free space. If I play it, I am ready to smash my moniter because it gets soooo choppy! And who cares if you can build all kinds of senseless buidlings--this is a war game, not a civ one.

Also, I prefer the fact that you can actually memorize most or all of the units and techs without having to look them up.

posted 02-25-01 02:10 PM ET (US)     11 / 29  
Thanks anyway, Wedsaz. I guess I just gotta have "pictures."


posted 02-25-01 03:52 PM ET (US)     12 / 29  

I know why I like AoE/RoR better than AoK/TC. I've had AoK and TC for two months but I just loathe it! In AoE/RoR it was choose civ and you knew what this civ got and what to research. Then in AoK, it's "Quick, get the technology tree!" and "What the **** can this civ research" and "Load up you damn online tech tree!" but most of all, "What counters what?" Also lag is terrible. The requirements for TC are absolutely absurd. 8 player, Wonder War, Gigantic and Fast Speed requires 333MHz on Normal Graphics just to run properly against computer!

Then AoK takes so long. In RM, rushing has been destroyed. TCs are too powerful and once the player builds a tower, it's wait till Imperial and build Trebuchets. In DMs, quick build and just rush is gone and you're left with a 3 hour slogging battle. Scenario editor has been made a bore. In AoE it was fun making scenarios. But now with triggers, OK, it's clever, it's now so boring, I can't stand it. It's like using BASIC to make a decent program! Oh yeah, and the buildings and units are TOO big. Too little fits on one screen and when you try to tell a villager to chop a tree down in a wood, strategically like to get a hideout no one can see, it's impossible!


The community in AoK SUCKS! AoKH forum is nothing like AoEH forums and people playing only care about 'Hitmen Scenarios' and 'Full Tech Trees' where everyone uses Persia!


Wedsaz, HELP! I'm so stuck in UrMud. My name in it is Centy btw. Anyway I can travel around but I can't get any money or in fact anything. I can't find the apple tree. I can't get started! I just wonder around aimlessly!

HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
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posted 02-25-01 04:12 PM ET (US)     13 / 29  
I'm in there right now, and you can also use wild's forum for questions (it's more appropriate than posting them here, I think).
posted 02-25-01 05:12 PM ET (US)     14 / 29  

Ok, so the tech trees are huge and take a while to learn, but you don't have to play every civ. It doesnt take that long to figure out what units counter what, and most of the time you can use your common sense (obviously a knight will an archer).

Rushing hasn't been destroyed, it's just changed. You use battering rams to take out the tc and any towers that he has. You can also send in a few knights to attack his woodchoppers or any vills that are far away from the tc. In DM's, games can be over in 10mins just like AoE/RoR. Ever heard of a paladin rush? And if you compare the "absurd" requirements of Aok/TC with something like Quake 3, they aren't so bad after all.

posted 02-25-01 08:12 PM ET (US)     15 / 29  

Wedsaz is one of the brains behind URMud.


I find it amusing that without anothers' pictures to prompt them some people can't think up their own, in their heads. Still, each to their own, I'd rather read a book than watch the movie..

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 02-25-2001).]

posted 03-03-01 06:12 PM ET (US)     16 / 29  
You know...I tried UrMud a month or so ago. I didn't get it. I'll admit I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but damn. If I remember right, I read some sentence about some guy and that was it. I couldn't figure out how to go from there. Whatever...


That is just simply the world we live in. Books are being replaced by DVDs and TV. Class rooms have more computer software than books. I believe that we can live in this techno world without becoming totally swallowed by it. Technology is good. Most of it makes our world better somehow. However, as it begins to rob the people of this planet of their imagination, their ability to imagine, then we have a problem.

You are 100% accurate with the book vs movie thing. We watch a movie and see what has been filmed for us to see. Not one shred of our own creativity is necessary for this to transpire. On the other hand, we read a novel and it is the pictures that our mind creates which we see. The challege placed before us is to sustain a balance in our lives. Let us not forfeit our ability to think, dream, imagine, or create. These things are what make us the individuals that we are.


posted 03-03-01 07:38 PM ET (US)     17 / 29  
You have hit on one of those deeper truths, about creating and balance.

You say, "The challenge placed before us is to sustain a balance in our lives. Let us not forfeit our ability to think, dream, imagine, or create. These things are what make us the individuals that we are."

And even though I love the "graphics" and the "seeing," I understand well what you mean about understanding with our imaginations, our dreams, and our visions. That is the inner "seeing." The real seeing.

And without that we limit our creating and we are off balance.

I salute you for reminding us of this.


posted 03-03-01 09:35 PM ET (US)     18 / 29  
Thank you. My point exactly.

Sumie - for one of the so called blunt tools around you just sharpened that point and made the best comment so far.

Yes, we live in a world of Style Over Substance (note the initials), but so what, we always did, there are simply more ways of expressing it now - that is no reason to forget we have minds. Any new idea, technology etc. should be taught as an aid to development, not as a chain to obstruct it. Sadly, ease of use and absolving oneself of the need to think are all too synonymous but they don't have to be, just as something that is not black does not have to be white. Once you get to the point where you always rely on someone else to draw the pictures in your head, you may walk around for another sixty years but you've already died inside.

Here endeth the lesson ;-)

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

posted 04-02-01 01:38 PM ET (US)     19 / 29  
On the original topic, I now play AoK more than AoE. Why? Triggers. I am a designer, rather than a RMer, and I find triggers (and many other aspects of the AoK Map Editor) very useful. There is a lot more potential for scenario design in AoK.

But, for the record, I never play AoK RM. Unless you count the first time I got the game.

Somehow, AoE is just more fun.

posted 04-02-01 01:54 PM ET (US)     20 / 29  
AoK engine + AoE civs/units = heaven.
posted 04-02-01 02:04 PM ET (US)     21 / 29  
Stopit! That would be great!
posted 04-03-01 04:45 PM ET (US)     22 / 29  
Well, I Far Well Prefer Scenario Building in AOK:TC, Then I Ever did in ROR, At First, Triggers are a total Bore, But you need insripation and help, So I Joined AOKH, I Got Help and now I Love Making games for AOK:TC But I'm Starting to Realise that I Should mix the games, I Mean at the moment, I'm making a Campaign for RoR and AOK: TC, I d,ont think it's for complete Wargames and Tech Heads, Which I am Neither, All you need is an idea, Stick to it and you will end up enjoying Making Games in AOK: TC, I'm an Editor not a Random Map Player.

Anyway, I Looked back on old threads and there is alot of them asking to make your Own Heroes, You Can (Almost) Do it in AOK: TC, So Scenario Design is so much Better, But I Want to make a Basic game Ror It Is.

posted 04-03-01 07:00 PM ET (US)     23 / 29  
I have recently started playing TC again on the Zone. I decided to accept there is no replacement to AoE/RoR and just play TC with no expectations. I just want to learn all of the civs/strats/Zone players so I can be a better Empire Earth player. (Long story but I wanna be one of the best EE players when it comes out)

When I gave Kings and TC chances over the past year or so I compared every feature, unit, graphic, and strategy to AoE/RoR and came away very disappointed. I played some Rookie Kings players and thought little of Kingers and their stupid game.

Recently I have played with some good players of TC and came away with some of the same feelings I had when I just started playing AoE on the Zone. I have been outboomed by 30-50 villagers by 20:00 into the game. We are talking I have 60-70 villagers and think I am doing good only to find other players with 120! This reminds me of the old days when I would get crushed in AoE and the map would be revealed and I would look in horror.

I also used to think that Kings/TC games were all long and boring. I have been killed in the Feudal and Castle Age a few times in the past few days.

What I really wish is all players could go into one game. AoE gets 800, RoR gets 600, Kings 2,000 and TC 5,000. That is 8,000-9,000 people always on the Zone playing an AoE series game. I guess I just get caught up in the "Where do I rate with all of these gamers?"

I will never leave the AoE/RoR community. I guess it is like my "first love" of online gaming that I will always be loyal to.

posted 04-03-01 07:31 PM ET (US)     24 / 29  
Attaboy, BLitz! Old is gold!

I may design in AoK, but I would never dream of RMing in anything but AoE.

posted 04-03-01 08:21 PM ET (US)     25 / 29  
AOK/TC sucks for one reason in my book, I CANT PLAY IT! they decided to make a game that needed 32b of ram! WHAT THE HELL IS WITH THAT! my 133 mhz, 16mb ram and 2gb HD cant handle either of those games so until i either get a new comp or they find a way for craptacular computers to handle the game I wont be playing it.

The past is useless which is why we move on to the future.
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