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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Topic Subject: Here Is A Collection of Screen Shots
posted 02-13-01 10:09 PM ET (US)   
I finally got a web page up with a lot of screen shots. I think most of you will enjoy them.

Anyways.... tell me what you think.

posted 02-13-01 10:56 PM ET (US)     1 / 23  
posted 02-14-01 02:40 AM ET (US)     2 / 23  
Nice. Do you always choose hittite, shang and minoan?
I'll take a look at your strat files next time I'm on a windows computer. MS obviously didn't port word to linux, so I can't see .doc files on here. (html RUL3Z!!!)
posted 02-14-01 11:58 AM ET (US)     3 / 23  

I'll change those strat files to HTML today.

As for my civs, I mainly play Yamato now in 1v1's, followed by Minoan. Yams can't be beat on the water. I take my strong Yam econ and beat Hittite and Minoan players on a frequent basis now even in Iron wars. (I prefer Mino over Hittite in Iron obviously)

I play Mace frequently against Minoans in 1v1's and Mace can't bew stopped by Mino on the land in Bronze. My Hoppie/ST/Compies usually balance out the navy disadvantage and I am able to maintain a fishing operation and crush any army on the land.

There was a time a month or so ago that I played Hittite all of the time because I thought I couldn't be beat by anybody playing Hittite.

Before that I played Shang a lot because I thought nobody could beat me when I play Shang. I can still out-boom a Minoan player using Shang.

So it seems when it comes to 1v1's there are really five civs that I can play with and win: Minoan, Hittite, Yamato, Shang, and Macedonian.

I have played a lot of rated games with my __B__L__I__T__Z name in the past three weeks. All have been 1v1's and I think that I have used Yam over 50% of the time. I don't know the web link to check that profile, but I know you can check and see what civs I have played somehow.

posted 02-14-01 03:31 PM ET (US)     4 / 23  

Ho boy do those screen shots bring back memories! My rear hurts just reminiscing about that game (and a few others)

But, um, say, where are the screen shots from our last 1v1 on conti?

posted 02-14-01 04:00 PM ET (US)     5 / 23  

Umm.... ya know I didn't take any of that one. Kinda weird how there aren't many shots of me losing. I don't "remember" to take 'em when I lose. If you have some though I will get them up. Send me your "I killed Blitz" shots.

Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
posted 02-14-01 10:54 PM ET (US)     6 / 23  

Nice site. Fun pictures.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
posted 02-15-01 03:22 AM ET (US)     7 / 23  
WoW. On my way to your profile, I saw the zone rooms for RoR... I had no idea how deserted they've become.
After seeing your best rated tool time (about a minute slower than my best bronze time), I'm looking forward to dusting off the rust and playing you. I expect I'll be the one taking screenshots.
I'll look at those strats now.
Hehe, I noticed that too; then again, selective memory is far from being an uncommon trait among experts.

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UrMud - online community in an ancient history world
posted 02-15-01 12:14 PM ET (US)     8 / 23  

Fair warning here. Your observation is correct - Blitz' tool times are slow compared to most experts. But you have to consider that he trades off a faster tool time for a bigger boom (and it is big). He's very good at defending/hiding until bronze and then you will have to contend with a mother horde of CA or hoppies/ST's and he pumps them out rather fast.

So I'm just saying that it is *not* as easy as you may think ...

posted 02-15-01 02:18 PM ET (US)     9 / 23  

I feel bad sometimes being cocky but the truth is I have lost 2 1v1 Medits this year out of at least a hundred or more. I have beat every player I have ever 1v1'ed on a Medit map. I (humbly) feel that there isn't a player out there that can beat me on a consistant basis on a huge, no reveal, Medit map in 1v1's. My strength is what you perceive my weakness is --- my Tool time.

What ya oughta do is notice how slow my Bronze time is after that Tool time. I doubt I get sub 16:00 Bronze's these days.

Here is the deal. I have learned how to handle being in Stone while my opponent is in Tool for sometimes longer than two minutes. It is not uncommon for me to notice that my opponent has Tooled as I hit the Tool button.

I know this sounds crazy but I am sold on the "big boom". I space my docks far apart so nobody ever can get rid of the majority of my fishing operation before I Tool. I would also have to (humbly) say that I haven't seen anybody better than me defending a land Tool attack on a Medit map. Clubbers have become offensive weapons for me in late Stone against opponent woodies. Everybody I play in 1v1's know that I am gonna be slow and try to capitalize --- you are not the first to realize this.

What makes this "strategy" so effective is my woodpile upon Tooling. I always get 4 docks making 2 Scout Ships immediately upon entering Tool, and I can then boom from 4 docks non-stop the rest of the game if I need to. I figure anybody that shortcuts this woodpile to get a faster Tool time sacrifices too much. If you can't boom Scout Ships/War Galleys out of 3-4 docks non-stop from when I Tool you will lose sea to me. If you have 3-4 Scout Ships at one of my docks I will have 6 gathered at other docks plus 2 out at the dock you are attacking. Compile a Yam 30% hit bonus to those numbers and I easily defeat your navy and take all of your fishing operation. Then I have 30+ woodcutters and 20+ fishing boats to feed an army that can simply overrun any civ/military combo.

Please.... let's set up an IP game, Zone game, or something so you can take some screen shots. I'll even put them on my site!

Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
posted 02-15-01 03:24 PM ET (US)     10 / 23  
I didn't say a minute slower than my best tool time. I said a minute slower than my best bronze time. If you want to compare bronzes to bronzes try 11:00 vs 16:30 which gives you 5:30, so roughly 5:20 for my cavs to do their thing before his first camels come out (by which time I should have compies anyway).
Wow, so that's what I sounded like when I started using the fastboom. They kept saying my 9 min tool time was way too slow, no matter how much I said it gave me the econ for the fast bronze and large army afterwards.
Yes, I agree with that kind of tool time it makes sense to use clubbers. After all, you can't spend more than 150f/minute on villies before bronze, and people tend to underestimate clubbers even in hordes.
Hehe, yeah nice wood pile no doubt. Too bad I don't plan on fighting you scout ship for scout ship.
Fighting fire with fire is a good way to get burned. Get the extinguisher instead.

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posted 02-15-01 06:01 PM ET (US)     11 / 23  

Yeah, I know what ya wrote. Just didn't bother to explain cause I thought that you might realize a few things ...

Well, I guess we are back at the starting point again. The only way to find out is to exercise your strat on the zone.

Personally, I don't think that your strat will work very well against a good player (assuming that you can execute it to a tee - which is what you will need to do).

And let's not forget what happened the last time you "dusted off the rust":,3320,701,0

Anyway, good luck on the zone (you will need it)

posted 02-15-01 06:12 PM ET (US)     12 / 23  
That is true about your Bronze time... it would be interesting to see what you could do for the few minutes I wasn't in Bronze with you.

Strats that have been the biggest "miss-strats" against this big boom are ones that fish but then land attack for early Bronze. Typically they will try Cav. I always commit to sea reguardless and use Scout Ships for protection and wall woodies in a forest by the shore if needed. I will build 2-3 ranges in my town in Tool and have 8-12 Bowmen hold me over till Bronze if there is chance of early Bronze units coming. As long as my fishing operation is thriving I do well.

When rushed I guess it all comes down to the boomer being able to survive. Here are a few things I do to live to see Bronze if rushed on land.

1) If I have clubbers come into my woodies before I have Tooled I will immediately have 4 villagers bone each clubber before the clubber gets the armor and axer upgrades. Then I will run the villas to a new pit and start cutting again.

2) If the clubbers turn to axers and there are 4 or more, I will run woodies in several directions to avoid death. My main aim is to have a few be sacrificed--the ones that are being chased, and the others pit and be woodies again A.S.A.P. This will force the opponent to have to make a decision to make a Scout or two, and/or make more axers. Either way this will slow his Bronze time. If opponent stays with just 4-5 axers I will just have some villas run them forever and if he seperates them up I will gang bone him to death.

3) If it looks like he is gonna be big and I am very slow, I run the majority of my villas to one of my docks and house block behind me. Usually that journey takes up enough time that I am close to Tool and have enough wood for a few Scout Ships to protect me.

4) Once in Tool I will make a tower in the path of my woodies, make 2-3 archery ranges near woodies, research archer armor, and make at least 6 bowmen. This investment is a priority over a Navy, however I try to gauge if I can get by with 2 archery ranges and fewer bowmen. As long as my woodies are still chopping uninterupted I feel I am OK. Bowmen is the best Tool defensive unit. They kill axers and scouts. The opponent must either switch to slingers with the market upgrade or wait for Bronze. Either way that buys me the time to get to Bronze. My fishing will provide hitting the Bronze button while fighting this Tool war.

5) If my opponent is rushing to Bronze and doesn't do a Tool army.... all the better. I will have a navy to eliminate their fishing. On land I will increase my Bowmen count. A group of 4-8 Bowmen will keep Cav/Camels out of woodies. If 3-4 CAs come to town I will have 10-12 woodies bone and the Bowmen behind them killing the CA. If the CA shoot the Bowmen, my villas will go unharmed and the rush was a TTL failure. If they shoot the villagers, they will get a few however I will still have a larger amount of woodies than him and my Bowmen will remain there for future attacks. Either way this is enough time wasted to get me to Bronze.

I have been Yam and survived till 25:00 on land with just Scouts and Bowmen in Bronze because my opponent took away my gold mines. That happened last week and I think he was shocked his small Bronze army couldn't do anything about my large Tool army. I just secured the sea, did my compie upgrades, did my gold mining upgrade, build 4 archery ranges and 3 stables, built Gov Center and 2 TCs, and boomed villagers and fishing ships like crazy. My Bowmen killed his repeated Cav attacks and my Scouts killed a couple STs. He was Roman and didn't send any Impies.... he should have because his Cav/ST combo was beat by a bigger Bowmen/Scout combo for 10-12 game minutes. Once I "retook" my gold mines I switched all of my woodies to gold miners. 30+ gold miners and 40+ fishing boats game me endless Compies, Cav, and a faster Iron than him. Once his forward base was gone and he was off sea he resigned. I ended up with 105 villagers and he had less than 40 when it was over.

My point of this babbling is if you are confident and experienced being an Age behind, and you understand what you're strengths/opponent's weaknesses are, you can capitalize and win most of the time. The rusher is always fighting time and opponent, while boomer has time on his side.

Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
posted 02-15-01 06:39 PM ET (US)     13 / 23  

Thanks for finding that thread! I wasn't so much interested in hearing/remembering the wedsaz experience as I was about remembering the beating that Blackheart AKA _dream_of_w33d_ on the Zone taught me.

That was the era, nine months ago, when I couldn't get into those "expert/known only" games. Blackheart beat me, then Hyper beat me in a couple 1v1's. In that same week or two Popov beat me in a couple 1v1's. I didn't realize how much my game has improved since then. Those games helped mold me into a lot better player.

These games provided me with an opportunity to "re-invent" myself having to adapt my skills to better strategies. I remember wondering if I would have to scrap every idea and thought I had learned in order to win against expert players in RoR. I had forgotten about this era. From those days on I learned how to dock space, fight in Tool, chase/kill forward builders relentlessly, micromanage a lot more at same time, explore better, understand opponent's economy/military better, and be confident enough to weather some expert beatings and keep coming back and playing with them again.

As for being wedsaz's temmate in that 2v2, I remember me and Hyper were Hittite, blackheart was Mino. I know wedsaz was Persian once that night, but I'm not sure if it was this one or the 1v1 with Mule. Reguardless of civs it was a great educational game where two great players crushed two inferior players. That was wedsaz's last game on Zone --May 3, 2000. Before that is was probably another 6-8 months of no playing.

Thanx Blackheart, Popov, and Hyper. Like they even read this stuff anymore.

Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
posted 02-15-01 07:02 PM ET (US)     14 / 23  

Well, I think that I'm kinda at the same stage where you were around that time. The last month I have been managing to get in a lot of "expert/known players only" games. These days a lot of experts even call me into games. 80% of those expert players are either somewhat better or a heck of a lot better than me. So it's no coincidence that a lot of them beat me. But I have noticed that my bag of tricks is expanding and my ability to deal with surprise situations and hang in there has gone up fast. Now when I play against most inters I usually win. And that's on all of the most common maps played on the zone - conti, medit and hillz.

The really weird thing is that in the last couple of weeks several expert players have called me an expert. I really don't think that I'm an expert but it is good to hear stuff like that cause you know that you must be progressing.

And all this in just 10 months. You give thanks to popov, blackheart, hyper and others. I never got to play them cause they are hardly on the zone anymore. But I learned a lot from you so thanks for the many butt kickings! Believe me when I tell you that after every game that I lost against you I disected the entire map and achievements to find out all the things that you did right and all the things that I did wrong...

posted 02-15-01 11:17 PM ET (US)     15 / 23  
LoL yeah, I remember how confused I was. I had forgotten everything!
When I say I want to "get the rust off" I mean at least a week of serious scrubbing, probably more, before I play blitz.
Congratz about being called an "expert", and keep looking at the map and achievements to see what you did wrong and what your opponents did well. Even when you win.
I agree it's possible to delay rushers quite a bit if you know what you're doing, even if you're an age behind. I used to know all about that, back in the AoE days when I was the one fighting off rushers. If the difference was 1 or 2 mins I wouldn't try it, but 5 mins? That's a *very* long time.
Cavs+STs vs scouts+bowmen? LoL. I agree impies would have done a better job. Towers + cavs (or chariots) might have done ok too, perhaps leading to scythes if things move too slowly. Of course, roman still wouldn't be my first choice vs yammy.
Actually I was persian both games, although it took me at last 10 mins to realize I wasn't mino in the 2nd one (LoL!). I also played 3 games of AoE on the zone a month or two after that, won 2 of them (but one of those was against a newbie, so it doesn't count for much).
Anyway, things seem to be going well here, so hopefully one of us might be able to take screenshots sometime soon.
posted 02-16-01 00:28 AM ET (US)     16 / 23  

Time to get back on the zone and start playing some games again! Look me up and we'll "de-oxidize" you.

BTW, I'm not an expert - real experts still eat my vils for lunch - so you still have a chance to take screenshots. But you'd better hurry ...

posted 02-16-01 00:32 AM ET (US)     17 / 23  
i see none of those fun tool wars we had on hills.
posted 02-16-01 01:25 AM ET (US)     18 / 23  

I'm actually kinda mad I can't find those screen shots. I know I took some during those Hills Tool wars. Hopefully I can come across them. I have about equal amounts of screen shots on two different computers, and I delete .bmp files after I rename, covert to .jpg, and move to a different directory. Those Tool wars are some I most want to come by. I just found my "Popov collection" of screen shots tonight and I'll get those uploaded in the next day or two.

posted 02-16-01 03:14 AM ET (US)     19 / 23  
As soon as I can play again, I'll do some practice runs vs the computer (aka "target practice") to get my econ straight, then I'll be happy to look you up. I'll probably still be pretty rusty at first, even if I get my skills back - being able to do basic things like bronze in 11 mins is ok, but knowing the opponent's weaknesses is another. I've seen many experts fall back to newbie level due to not staying ahead of the times, despite regular zone play. I expect I'll have to play quite a bit before I can climb back up, especially after the whooping I got last time.
Those couple games of AoE a little while later tell me there's still hope, at least. In the words of the Terminator, "I'll be back".
posted 02-16-01 04:00 AM ET (US)     20 / 23  

Any timeframe on this "comeback"?

posted 02-16-01 12:54 PM ET (US)     21 / 23  
Nothing certain yet. It's looking good though, so maybe within the next month or two.
posted 02-17-01 02:33 PM ET (US)     22 / 23  
hmm Dave... didnt you watch a few of our games and take screenshots for us? you wouldnt happen to have a few left would ya?

ill be coming back into the game...starcraft is boring now and asherons call is annoying.. ill be playing mech 3 and RoR alot now.. so if you see me on give me a ring and maybe ill give you a game (a bad one at that)

posted 02-19-01 10:04 AM ET (US)     23 / 23  

Mule would be proud. What a fine site.

Mano: I think Dave and Saiso both posted screen shots of the Hillz games. However, I'm not too sure why you would be excited about seeing them again.

Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Here Is A Collection of Screen Shots
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