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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Defending a tower rush
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Topic Subject:Defending a tower rush
Chris_Hani
Clubman
posted 10-28-00 00:33 AM ET (US)         
I've been having problems lately defending against a tower rush during late Tool. I was just wondering if anyone had any strategies to defend against a tower rush?
AuthorReplies:
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 10-28-00 03:18 AM ET (US)     1 / 12       
There are a few things you can do in Tool to defend against a tower rush.

First of all, Towers take time to build so if you ever see villas stake out a tower in your camp..bone them to death.

If by chance they get a tower up, a few slingers will make quick work of a single watch tower.

Worst case scenerio is to simply take 8-10 of your woodies and bone the tower into ashes quickly.

Remember that if you are playing a default resources game, you only have enough Stone for one tower (two if Roman). If your opponent builds more than one, you will know he has villagers mining Stone, and you should be able to capitalize by having a bigger army of food/wood/gold resources in Tool and early Bronze. Retaliate quickly by attacking their camp.

The worst thing that you can do is nothing at all. Tower rushes are hard to pull off if you are constantly watching your base.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-28-00 05:05 AM ET (US)     2 / 12       

BlitzkreigComin:
LoL, sounds to me like a good tower rusher would walk all over you!
 
A good tower rusher starts away from your town, and brings a few axers or at least armored clubbers for backup. If you see villies building a tower, there's probably at least 3-4 towers behind it. Since he's mining stone anyway, his own tower is probably towered as much as yours. It's a big investment, so he's counting on doing even greater damage to you than the resources he wasted. Let's dissect your solutions:
 
1. "Towers take time to build so if you ever see villas stake out a tower near your camp... bone them to death." - Whichever villies you send to do the boning are walking right into the biggest trap they'll ever see. The 2nd row of towers and the axers/clubbers will rip them apart before they can do any damage. The tower builders will go behind their support to avoid being killed, if the tower was barely started then it gets canceled to recycle almost all the stone, if not then you won't bone much for the villies you lose.
2. "If by chance they get a tower up, a few slingers will make quick work of a single watch tower." - A few slingers would indeed make short work of a watch tower, if it weren't for axers/clubbers. This still has a chance, but I've seen it fail (from both sides).
3. "Worst case scenerio is to simply take 8-10 of your woodies and bone the tower into ashes quickly." - That is indeed the worst case scenario, since you'll probably lost all of those villies and maybe, just maybe, you'll kill 150 stone (or 75s vs roman!) for your trouble.
4. (snip) "Retaliate quickly by attacking their camp." - As I mentioned earlier, since they're mining stone anyway (1 or 2 towers is useless), if they're smart they'll probably tower their own town too. If you attack their camp, be sure to make it a large army of slingers and/or axers, which are capable of taking down towers. More about this later in this post.
5. "The worst thing that you can do is nothing at all." - Quite right, standing there awaiting your fate won't help.
6. "Tower rushes are hard to pull off if you are constantly watching your base." - Not really. They're risky because of the large investment, but watching your base has little to do with it.
 
Now, I think the best solution is the following: First send a single villager to recon the towering area, to see if it's a rookie building a lone tower. If it's the case, type 19 in the chat window a few times while your villies bone his tower down. If not, quietly sneak your villies out the back (as in *not* through his towers, and try not to let him see the exodus). That's right, chicken out, letting him waste more stone towering up your town. Rebuild somewhere not too far away (maybe 50 tiles) and tool rush... his ally! A good tower rush is meant to weaken both you and your ally, so *his* ally can deal the killing blow with a quick bronze. By taking out his ally, you destroy his future, since with all that stone mining (especially if he was still towering up your town through all this, lol) he'll be stuck in tool age for a while; you and your ally can bronze relatively fast if you relocate.
 
While relocating may seem like a big cost, when compared to the mountains of stone and build time (which usually means an earlier tool with a smaller econ) required to build all those towers, it's not that much. If he persists despite his ally dying and you bronzing, you can come back with a horde of slingers (with logistics of course) if you're in a sadistic mood.
 
Hope this helps.


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BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 10-28-00 04:08 PM ET (US)     3 / 12       
wedsaz:

LOL

Tower rushes are near impossible to pull off against a good player. I have never, NEVER been beat by one....and I don't condsider myself among the elite players of the game.

To have a tower rush in Tool means dedicating 5 or more villagers in Stone age on Stone, having 2-3 villagers build the towers, and do axer upgrade and maybe a scout/slinger or two.

So if you rush to Tool with 16 villagers, have 5 on Stone and 3 forward builders, that leaves 8 (or 12 if you do 20 villagers in Stone). This will not provide any other military for you, and you will never Bronze against a good player.

To build a network of towers takes time, and time is not on your side if you are dedicating so many villagers on stone.

I use my strats to defend against Rook tower attacks. BTW I have never had a partner chat to me in an expert game say "I'm gonna go Tower Rush so and so". It is just too ineffective and risky.

Chris_Hani
Clubman
posted 10-28-00 04:22 PM ET (US)     4 / 12       
Thanks
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-28-00 11:42 PM ET (US)     5 / 12       
BlitzkreigComin:
I agree it's *near* impossible, although of course those are the best strats when you can pull them off. I did it to experts and inters a few times, and won, but there's other ways.
 
Oh, and if you're going to tower rush somebody... don't start mining stone until you start the tool upgrade, and then put 6 villies on stone. You won't need much wood (maybe a house or two) so if you have any stockpile at all, move all woodies to other tasks. With 6 villies on berries, that leaves 4 villies for forward building.
 
The first thing you want near the enemy is a barracks to train a few clubmen, you can even build that before tool.
 
The next thing is to wall your opponent into his own town (without being seen). This ensures that he won't be able to run away on you. MUHAHAHAHA!!!
 
You'll want the armor upgrade for your clubmen. It only costs 75f, and makes them 3x as resistant to villies.
 
Build your first 3-4 towers far enough so they don't shoot at the enemy town, then build new ones towards it with always at least 2 other towers covering it. Since you have 4 forwards, split them into two pairs so you can build 2 towers at a time. Keep your clubmen close to the front line.
 
I've seen good players scream insults and resign at this one. It might be possible to escape by using a few slingers to take down a portion of the wall, but still it's pretty rough.
 
Once the opponent either gets away or rushes your towers, take out his TC and rebuild your own TC in his base to build your new empire towards bronze. Although you're a bit behind, you aren't as far as he is and your new town is already towered up and walled in!
 
Best civs for this are roman (cheap towers, cheap buildings), babs (tough towers and walls, faster stone mining), palmy (doesn't need as many villies to have a strong econ), and the ever-present shang (who do get to use their tough walls here). If you have one of the first 3, you can put less villies on stone and more on berries for a faster recovery. If you have shang, the food savings from the villies trained will again help you bronze faster.
HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 10-29-00 02:02 AM ET (US)     6 / 12       
hey, I've been one of those screaming good players.

HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 10-29-00 03:49 AM ET (US)     7 / 12       
I've found that walling in an enemy can be very effective. Once, I did a villy war with an assyrian for some berries and he came back with _all_ his villagers and chased this one villy of mine. I sent the villager into an mostly locked area by trees and cliffs so i walled the exits. He had every single one of his vills in there, all helpless.

It also helps against early chariot or even composite attacks.

A strategy I use is placing walls randomly positioned throughout the map to make it hard for them to get through. Particularly in wide, open areas between you and the enemy where they send units running across. I've seen people who just tell their scythes to go towards me and they all get stopped at a wall smack in the middle of the map.

I have a question-
What are waypoints? How do you use them and what do they do?

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 10-29-00 04:41 AM ET (US)     8 / 12       
right click while holding the shift key, and the unit will not move, but be ready to move toward a white flag thag appears where you clicked. You can set up as many of these waypoints in a sequence as you want, and the units will start moving when you right click without holding shift...to the places you clicked, in the order you clicked them, until it reaches the last place where you clicked without holding shift.

HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 10-29-00 05:34 AM ET (US)     9 / 12       
That's right. Be sure you keep the waypoints rather close together for else the pathfinding slows down the process very much.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 10-31-00 07:38 PM ET (US)     10 / 12       
wedsaz:

I hate to bring this topic back up here to be an ass, but I am.

Since I can't play you on the Zone, all I can do is listen to you spew about you inventing dock-blocking and boat booming. I can't believe you have small fragile minds here that actually believe you.

Anyways go back and read this thread. Someone asks a simple question about how to defend a Tool tower rush. I give the best way to defend a Tool tower rush. You quickly spew something out of your mouth that is way out of touch with gameplay.

Example: Here we were talking about a simple Tool tower rush. I state how to defend a tower rush in the Tool Age. You laugh and say you don't need to put ppl on Stone until you reach the Tool Age. You then talk about tower rushers having "networks" of towers in enemy town and back at home. This will all be done by placing 5-6 miners on Stone once in Tool Age seconds before this network of towers is built. Also you will wall him off out of his town. You will have axers, slingers (with upgrades) and other Tool army all fed by 2-3 berry foragers.

Then you laugh at me retaliating quickly, but you propose to surrender your town to a Tool tower rush, flee in terror, rebuild your camp, and then Tool rush? That is a real snicker by me. I bet that Tool rush will be feared 25 minutes into the game.

Your whole feel for the game is way out of balance. This simple strat you propose in this thread sucks like all of your other strats that you can't show. All I'm saying is play the game or leave the strategy insights to people that do play.

Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 11-02-00 01:48 AM ET (US)     11 / 12       
I haven't read a comeback like that since the good ole BlackHeart days. wedsaz, you must respond . To the friggin top.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 11-02-00 02:32 PM ET (US)     12 / 12       
BlitzkreigComin:
If you stretch something enough, don't be so surprised when it breaks.
 
1. Look, I dock-blocked CD and he didn't know about it at the time. I didn't learn it from anyone, and he's generally credited as having invented it. The only thing that surprises me about it is how people can believe that dock-blocking was invented as an extension of completely land-based assy strats. I can explain how a rookie like me came up with the minoan boat boom if you want, too. I wouldn't even have mentioned any of that if people hadn't prodded me into it by constantly saying none of my strats could stand up to experts.
2. How can you be sure your way is the "best" way? And what makes you so sure it's a "simple" tower rush? Maybe Chis_Hani is a better player than you think, and got whacked by a well-organized tower rush, not a half-assed pile of stone in a corner. I tried to give a description of a complete tower rush, and how to stop everything in it, so that people could learn both at once.
3. "You say you don't need to put ppl on Stone until you reach the Tool Age." - Wrong. I said "don't start mining stone until you start the tool upgrade". That's a 2 minute difference, which means a lot of stone. The reason I wouldn't start until the tool upgrade is that until then my whole economy would be geared for as fast a tool time as possible with that size econ. Once the tool upgrade is started, I don't need as much food and wood so I can switch a large part of my econ to stone.
4. "You then talk about tower rushers having "networks" of towers in enemy town and back at home." - Towers work best in networks. As time goes on, a good tower rusher will build a network of towers both in your town and at home, but of course they will start small. You might expect 3-4 towers in your town at the start of a tower rush, and 3-4 in their town by the time you can mount a serious offensive. Remember that you have to train those troops, and a rusher won't just stop and wait for you to be done training your horde of tool units to build his defenses. Expect a wall or a few towers, prepare for it by bringing some slingers to take them down, at worst you'll kill his houses faster.
5. "This will all be done by placing 5-6 miners on Stone once in Tool Age seconds before this network of towers is built." - There's the whole tool upgrade, and the tower upgrade before the first two towers can be built, and you start the game with 150 stone. There's time to gather stone for a lot of towers. With 2 groups of 2 builders, the first few towers can go up quite quickly.
6. "You propose to surrender your town to a Tool tower rush, flee in terror, rebuild your camp, and then Tool rush?" - If it's a serious tower rush, yes. By moving you lose a few houses, a granary near a used-up berry patch, your TC, and a wood pit; he loses the stone he put into all those towers. Nice trade, I think. You can rebuild your camp not too far away, and gradually since your buildings won't disappear instantly. Start by rebuilding your TC in your new location, near food and wood, build a few military buildings for your tool rush, and rebuild houses as needed. It may be a few minutes before the tower rusher even realizes you left your old town, wasting stone the whole time, and by then you're ready to strike back.
7. "This simple strat you propose in this thread sucks like all of your other strats that you can't show." - Again, you seem to think that a general has to be on the front line while he makes battle plans. If that's the case, I hope I'll never have to serve in your army.
8. "All I'm saying is play the game or leave the strategy insights to people that do play." - Playing the game isn't an option for me right now, and you know it. I try to get as much feedback as I can from those that do play, but I'm not sure leaving the strategy insights to experts that are never here and to people looking for strategies will do much good.
 
All *I'm* saying is if you have strats to post, post them. If not, shut up and play, and have a good time while you're at it; I just wish I could shut up and play too.

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