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Topic Subject:Hints for beginners
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peter
HG Alumnus
posted 10-01-00 06:00 PM ET (US)         
What about a thread with hints and tips for starters?
For instance: when I started with this game I was always repairing war ships because I couldn't stand the sight and sound of them burning ships. Then I saw that the repairmen were really wasting a lot of time. I abandoned it and did much better. There must be a lot more things that seem quite illogical at first but are a real help.
AuthorReplies:
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-01-00 06:41 PM ET (US)     1 / 44       
Yeah, priests healing units is rarely worthwhile either, the 125 gold being better spent on something that won't die from 5 CA arrows.
 
Granaries are for berries and farming, you can't put wood or meat in them.
 
When fighting an enemy army, it's better to pile up a big army rather than bring in only one unit at a time.
 
Unless you're using a civ that has a bonus for towers (roman, choson, babs), they're are a waste of stone. It's important to make one layer of wall as soon as possible, but don't bother making it 20 layers thick: if they have siege weapons, it'll go down fast anyway.
 
Speed kills. While it may seem that speed is most important for rushing, it's even more important for pushing them back since you need to set up your defenses *before* the enemy is in your town.
 
Okay, next post will be nothing but hints about speed.

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wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-01-00 06:55 PM ET (US)     2 / 44       
The Art of Speed:
1. If you don't need that unit or tech, don't get it. The resources are better spent on something else.
2. If there's any other food available, don't farm.
3. Don't mine any more gold or stone than you need. That means if you're not making much walls/towers or a huge horde of slingers, don't mine much stone. Even gold-heavy strats don't need more than 3-4 gold miners in tool.
4. Some civs are faster than others due to their bonuses. The fast civs are shang, persian, minoan and palmy. The semi-fast civs are roman, yamato and assyrian, phoenie, and sumerian. Last are the "slow civs" - babylon, carth, choson, egypt, greek, hittite and mace. Persian and palmy bonuses are a bit hard to use, the other civs are easier. Shang and roman are especially good if you're just starting out.
5. When picking berries, build your granary right nearby. When cutting wood, put your storage pit nearby.
6. Build houses before you need them. When "before" is depends on how fast you're increasing up your population.

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darius_the_mede
Clubman
posted 10-01-00 07:02 PM ET (US)     3 / 44       
Best tip I ever got: Bronzing fast with shang is like paying for sex. It feels good, but you can't really brag about it.

MSN-IM - king_zoser@hotmail.com
E-mail Me - laststop@ematic.com
"Great minds have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-01-00 07:38 PM ET (US)     4 / 44       
darius:
LoL, but quite true. In the case of bronzing fast with shang though, it's a good starting point.

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darius_the_mede
Clubman
posted 10-01-00 09:48 PM ET (US)     5 / 44       
1. If an enemy has 6-7 minute tool, and the largest army soon after that, its a sure sign of a rush.
2. If you see a small tool army attack, but not enough to seem like a rush, click on one of the units. If it doesn't have the attack or HP upgrades(the HP and Attack should have a +x after it, x being a number) then it is a good possiblity of a probe and play. Expect a quick Bronze rush soon after, so wall ASAP.
3. Scouting is very important, even on reveal maps.
4. A sure sign of a rookie is their inability to grasp the "1.0 speed only" concept. Someone acually ask me if I had a really slow comp or something.
5. No matter what instinct tells you, "bronze time" isn't everything.
6. A cav rush is stopable.
7. This has to be the real best tip I've ever heard:
quote:
Show me a guaranteed formula for success in Age of Empires and I'll show you someone that has yet to fully grasp the game.

-ThumP



MSN-IM - king_zoser@hotmail.com
E-mail Me - laststop@ematic.com
"Great minds have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 02:34 AM ET (US)     6 / 44       
1. Don't try fighting axers with villagers.
2. Avoid villager rushes if the enemy is assyrian, yamato, palmyran, or sumerian.
3. Wall in!!! If the enemy is making tons of Chariot Archers only (which is all too common), a wall will delay them for a good long time. Use forests when walling, use walls between forests since enemies can't go through forests (unless it's late iron and they have heavy catapults or Juggernauts).
4. Don't cheat
5. Go into rookie games if you are still a rookie, don't venture into expert games, they won't be any fun and they will probably ***** at you.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 02:57 AM ET (US)     7 / 44       
Whether you attack with archers, cavalry or infantry... get the first armor upgrade, otherwise a horde of villagers can bone your army to death.
SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 02:31 PM ET (US)     8 / 44       
Start a game vs a computer 1v1 and get your of your navy to like 3 hp then repair it: you'll be amazed by the results ;P

Repairing your boats is prolly the most well guarded secret in this game: you save sooooooo much wood ;P

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 10-02-00 02:46 PM ET (US)     9 / 44       
Popov:
A bit clearer migh help.
SaSa408
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 03:13 PM ET (US)     10 / 44       
popov,

I am not a beginner. I am one who has played several months but who is still beaten by the computer (and always others on the Zone) most of the time.

On the ship repair. I was doing that. Because I was brought up to take care of what I had. However, on this thread someone said it was a waste of time.

Now you are saying it "saves sooooo much wood." Tell me, because I may have wrong information in my head, I thought it took wood to repair boats just like it does to create them.

Sara

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 10-02-00 03:28 PM ET (US)     11 / 44       
I can't speak for Popov, but what he means is probably only of use for experienced and efficient players. The point is that if you repair a ship, you must first bring a villager to the coast to repair it and the ship to the same place - that probably involves waiting. When the repair is done, the villager must return to work. You can't look on while the repairing takes place, so the villager probably stands idle some time. Per repairing that may cost you several seconds. If you do it often in a game - just think how much wood that villager could gather in that time.
We were probably all brought up not to kill other people, at least that's to be hoped. Yet you need to do a lot of killing in this game, it can't be helped.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 03:57 PM ET (US)     12 / 44       
As far as I'm concerned there's 2 big costs from repairing ships:
1. The villager could probably cut more wood than you're saving, if he wasn't off repairing boats.
2. The same thing that injured your boat... can very easily finish it off and kill your villie, too. This is especially the case in team games where another ally can swoop down while the one you just whooped is recovering.

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Dark_Avenger
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 05:21 PM ET (US)     13 / 44       
Now, I only use repairing for my tradeships. Anyway, on Islands map you need a lot of wood to control the seas(to have a biggest navy than your foe) Then, on great island don't be shy to build military buildings on the island's foe.

have fun!

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 10:08 PM ET (US)     14 / 44       
When I had the demo, in the second scenario, I would keep my boats near my shore, and let their navy come to me...and would keep 2 vills at the shore. As ships lost HPs I would retreat them to the vills which would repair them. Econ wasn't an issue, because I had plenty of wood, but a max pop of only 50...not enough to overpower the enemy, which was making land attacks too. I then won the scn. by killing off the small force at bottom, and using their gold to get my tech up to speed, and simply outlasted the big guys because I was more careful with my limited wood.

HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-02-00 10:31 PM ET (US)     15 / 44       
HonoredMule:
There's one factor though that applies vs humans but not AIs... good players will shoot your repairmen. I learned that the hard way when I first went on the zone.

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peter
HG Alumnus
posted 10-03-00 06:35 AM ET (US)     16 / 44       
wedsaz:
Do they now? Hm, then I'm not so bad (please note the ambiguity).
SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 10-03-00 07:41 PM ET (US)     17 / 44       
2 things 'bout navy that'll gives ya wonderful results and other players will be amezed at your playing style:

1-) Use dancing boats...

2-) Use your FORWARDS to repair ur navy (since your navy fights should be near your forward base at first, repairing would be a great bonus added to the dancing=> repairing a damaged boat is half cost of a normal boat if you need to repair it from 2hp (for exmaple): if ur ship is at 50hp, it'd cost less wood of course but what I mean is that a navy with 1hp left gonna cost you 1/2 price of a normal boat from the dock...

Of course, later in the game, don't do that ;P When ur in Iron with 150 villas and hcats-helo on their way and 10k of wood and 10k of gold, it's a waste of time on your managing ;P

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-03-00 07:54 PM ET (US)     18 / 44       
popov:
You seem to forget most people don't have the reflexes of a cat, and that as a result of following your advice, they would lose their boats (without shooting as much as they should have) and their forwards (who could have been buildings houses instead).
 
When dealing with normal people, could you do us a favor and assume a 1/10th of a second or slower reaction time, plus possible (even frequent) lag? Thanx.

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SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 10-03-00 08:23 PM ET (US)     19 / 44       
Ok: I agree for one thing: lag is a pain for dancing ;P

As for the rest: I disagree big time!

Man, Peter is a new player on the zone: why not giving him some tips of what the best players are able to do in a regular game so he can try it by himself and at the same time improve him gameplay?

As for dealing with normal players: when I first played RoR in summer 98 for only 1 month and a half: it was in AoE days with brz "fast" in 13:30 and I was accusing everyone of cheating and I was always thinking that they'd made a slingshot or something...

I left for 6 months and came back in Feb 99 and decided that I was tired of getting my ass whooped and accusing a normal player (13:30 was almost an average at the time for a good player) and that I'd become the guy that'd get accused all the time. I started to improve... week after week without any coops from anyone: I've read almost anything you can think 'bout on the Net that is related to AoE-RoR and I've started by improving my boom and also brzing in a decent time: I was maknig 16:00 brz each games and 45-50 villas on Conti No Rev (teams games) and I then started to rush like mad=> tool under 9:00 with econ to beat 2 guys or going to brz fast and beat the crap outta 2 guys... It took me time but I was able to reach that point cuz: I listened to what the "good players" like Methos, Staffa and a few others were saying in their articles: it's like CD article 'bout brzing fast: practice it and you'll be able to make 35 villas and brz in 13:00 with slow civ on a Conti map with a normal start (berries start WITHOUT using SF). I then tried a few games vs 1 computer (was only for fun) where I was trying to get to 100 villas and brz under 19:00 at speed 2.0 to make it harder(I saw on a site that 19:00 brz and 100 villas was supposed to be super good): I was amazed at the brz time I was able to get after a few tries: all the things I've learned during all those weeks of playing time gave me nice results and I was very happy of myself: I KNOW it's only a game but if someone wanna have some tips, I'm willing to give anythnig he wanna learn=> even the tricks that the "experts" players are able to do... BTW, the difference between an experienced player and an expert: the expert is able to make a few more villies than the experienced guy and still tool or brz faster or at the same time... He'll also keep his villies worknig all the time while attacknig and he'll be also able to boom to over 75 villies (the bare minimum) before EVEN thiknig of Ironing (I go Iron once I got over 120 villies... Never before (a big brz army is always gonna beat a crappy Iron army=> I've heard many pplz once they had lost: "HEY! I was in Iron and you were still brz: you got lucky that you were able to get my villies before I was able to get a bumchs of Dumbos" Guess what, you need villies to make bunchs of dumbos ;P) => I make more villies (like 140-175) if I'm getting stuck in a 2v3 or 1v3 on Hills for example). I'm not saying that you should do that to have success: I'm only saying that if you're able to make villies (and a bunch) while attacknig and also having 'em worknig as they get out of the TC (or so), you'll get a so huge econ that the upgrade to Iron isn't even gonna slow you down while you're maknig army. Only way to be able to do that is practice, practice, practice and listen every tips you can get and try it by yourself. So, for example, if Peter is able in like 2 weeks to attack and start to use the dancing tactic and he starts being able to repair at the same time, then that means that he has improved alot and it's not by trying to make 16 villas and tool that you'll improve your skills in this game... it'll improve a part of your game but won't make ya a good player.

It's the same with the fact of giving a "new comer" some tips of what good players are able to do: of course he's gonna struggle big time at the beginning and there's no shame 'bout that: but with games and games, if you're able to add a few things (tactics, strats) to your gameplay once in a while, you'll always improve your game each times and I think it's more fun like that: I had more fun 1 year ago when I was still improving my game and learning things that today: I play this game but I usually play only with friends or to teach someone... Learning in WAYYYYYY better: so Wedsaz, let him learn... He's willnig to

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-03-00 08:43 PM ET (US)     20 / 44       
popov:
What I was saying is that many people (let's say half) quite simply *can't* dance fast, and will never be able to, because they have poor reflexes. For example, I can't dance vs anything faster than a hoplite, even after having played for 2 years, sometimes with players like CD and matty and some others who you consider "the good players".
 
It's good that you mention some can do it, and it's definitely very cool and can help you save much res. However, some can't, and must make up with patience which is what most of my strats require. I was an excellent feeder/sling, and it's my guess you'd be an excellent soldier/bullet.
 
Oh, and the difference between rookies, inters and experts, as I see it:
1. rookies learn how to play the game (basic things, from building granaries near berries not wood, to seeing how easily expensive dumbos get converted)
2. inters learn how to know themselves (how to rush and win - being fast, tool rush, cav/camel rush, CA rush, etc)
3. experts learn how to know the enemy (how to stop rushers and not lose - being faster, walls, spread+run, dancing, etc)

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SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 10-03-00 09:19 PM ET (US)     21 / 44       
It's way better tho if you can be your own feeder and bullet ;P

Well, in fact, with 2 of my friends, we sometimes make Iron sling and they want me to go Iron and fight vs other ennemies cuz I'm also able to dance, spread out tcs and boom at same time but I'd rather be the guy that stays in tool age and FB boom... I'd be even better I think if I'd do that: they want me to attack cuz they keep tellnig me they can't take the pressure of having to beat all 3 and attack all 3 at the same time: so I'm stuck being the bullet, hehe

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 10-03-00 09:26 PM ET (US)     22 / 44       
wedsaz, I was talking about against the computer, not people with the fixing ships thing.

How good is your mouse? It is extremely important...it's the main portal of your commands. Between that and a 17 inch (at least) monitor, you can vastly improve your "reflexes." also turn up the sensitivity way high, and a normal mousepad won't cut it. My game vastly improved when I got a high-res mouse and a 3M precise mousing surface...you wouldn't believe the wonders it did for my instagib UT games, either.

Of course practice is the key...I must admit I just don't care enough to practice my way to experthood anymore...it pains me to think I would have to start using the 2-key building hotkeys and grouping them unter the # keys to get better and faster...that's why I designed macros just to eliminate that...too bad my trial use ran out on macro express. Call me lazy, but I just don't care for that aspect of improvement. I'd rather go play UT or some other game where the controls are more intuitive and ergonomic.


HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 10-03-00 09:54 PM ET (US)     23 / 44       
HonoredMule:
Dirty old MS-thingie mouse, 14" screen, poor reflexes to start with. About 200mhz processor, and I usually have host so I can get to play ***with cheats OFF damnit!!!*** (had to get that out). I don't require people to be in the same room, connected to me by an isdn line to play with them.
 
Result? {oor natural reflexes multiplied by crappy hardware and lag = ssslllooooooooowww...
 
Just imagine how I'd be now after not playing for what, 2 years? No way I'll be dodging assy bowman arrows anytime soon...
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 10-04-00 10:50 AM ET (US)     24 / 44       
Popov:
Thanks for dropping in. I like your point of view about educating newcomers - that's why I started this thread. But I've played AOE/ROR for almost a year now though only against the computer so I'm not really a beginner.
It's still not quite clear to me what dancing is, but you prolly mean repeated moving and firing. If so I sometimes practise that but it's beyond me how you can dance 100 units.
Repairing: if u got plenty wood but your vills are idle most of the time, which happens to rookies often, repairing is not a good idea for it gives you an extra idle vill. But if you got only a little wood repairing is better than having no ships at all. Like I said, repairing is more for the good players, however you define those. You only have forward villagers in an RM game, not in campaigns which beginners may play a lot.
With a lot of training u can speed up tool time and brz time and iron time as well, but then I think u r really turning the game into a shooting game. Against the computer it's a worthless strat cuz if u brz when the CP tools, u spoil the fun of the game, so whom are u taking in then? For me, strategy means that you think of putting you archers on an elevation and if u thought of putting 5 archers there u did better than if u have 100 archers anywhere else - no matter how clever it is if u can dance them. Outwitting your enemy by destroying all their pits and TCs seems a nice strat to me, but in multiplayer RM that may be difficult to pull off.

Btw, you can't train 35 villagers and brz in 13 minutes - you got no time for training all the villagers then. And it doesn't make much sense to me to say to rookies that they should make 140 vills before upgrading to iron. You can keep those villagers busy - but how is a rookie supposed to do that?

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 10-04-00 11:59 AM ET (US)     25 / 44       
peter, I think popov realizes you can't do those things, but the idea is to practice until you can...because you will need to when your strategic skills are built up.

wedsaz, try playing some 3D shooters...I know they make you dizzy, but they will improve your ability to read the visual components of the screen faster, and it helps to play *real* sports like hockey which will improve your peripheral vision. Also, reflexes are 90% developed, take it from me...UT did wonders for my aoe game in itself. When I wokd up the drive to be clicking and moving like mad, I can do much better. I can even get those assy wheeled villys from dancing on one click if I want to bad enough, and my reflexes (more importantly hand-eye coordination) were 90% nonexistent before I got excited about UT.


HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
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