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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » A Nice Lil Strat
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Topic Subject:A Nice Lil Strat
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 07-04-00 03:58 PM ET (US)         
The Shang 50 vill 12:00 Tool is one of the toughest strats to stop in RoR on a Medit or Conti map. I am undefeated on the Zone when I achieve a 50 vill 12:00 Tool. I can do this strat about 30% of the time I try it on the Zone. This strat needs a decent berry placement, forest placement, and somewhat near the sea. If your time slips over 13:00 usually means defeat. I will not show a specific step by step, but rather the overall concept. I use hot keys to build every building. I hit period key every time something is born to find it. I assign each dock a number (so I can hit 2f and build a fishing boat without looking), I assign my forward builders a number, and also my early Tool Scout(s) and Scout Ships.

The overall objective in Stone is to:
1- Have 27-30 real vills
2- Have 20-23 fishing boats
3- Hit Tool button before 10:00

This will require:
1- First 5 vills on berries for no villa lag
2- Pit by a forest under 4:00- the closer to TC the better to minimize walking distance for new vills
3- 2 Forward builders to be at water when pit is completed and start building 3-4 docks nonstop placing them a full screen apart
4- New vills being born are responsible for housing

Moment of Decision:
At 7:00 I take a look at my villa pop, food, wood, and overall game so far. If things are good I leave all real vills on wood except for the 2 forward builders, and keep booming fishing boats and villas until 9:30-10:00. My main objective at 7:00 is to see what is needed to hit Tool button before 10:00. The worst thing that can happen is for me to boom big and hit Tool button after 11:00. That will give a very easy win for a good opponent.

If things have gone worse than expected:
1- I have some woodies work on second land food source (5-15 woodies depending on the severity of problem)
2- I will stop booming fbís and villas between 7:30-8:30 with a TTL villa pop of 33-38.
3- I hit Tool button somewhere between 8:30-9:30.
4- Abort this strat.

The 10:00 mark will be the latest I will hit Tool button, and have anywhere from 46-50 villas. I will send my forward builders towards the enemy camp. At around 65-70% to Tool, I will have my Forwards throw down a Barracks. In a good game, it is right next to his camp.

Upon arriving to Tool Age:
1- I check my food. This will determine my Tool Army size.
2- My forwards build a Stable by Barracks. I make 4-6 Slingers, and when Stable is complete I make 1-2 Scouts.
3- I immediately make a Scout Ship in all of my docks. This will exhaust my woodpile.
4- I make 3 vills at TC. I make 3 rather than just advance to Bronze. It costís me 1:00, but in that 1:00 my fbís gather more food, giving me an opportunity to have a good Tool army and have the 800 food to Bronze. I also use the three new villas to build a market by my TC, and become ďroversĒ. If Iím in a big sea war, they go to wood. They can throw up a wall. If I have teammates, they can go to their city. My best option is to put them on gold.
5- When Market is complete I hit Bronze upgrade (around 13:00) and research Woodcutting. Following Woodcutting I research Gold Mining.

Tool Warfare:
1- Once my Army is made (1-2 Scout and 4-6 Slingers) I make another Scout, research armor if I had 1000+ food upon entering Tool, and make 4-6 more Slingers. I also DBL Click on my 4 Scout Ships and send them to enemy docks, and build as many more Scout Ships as my woodpile permits. I like to attack first on land. I hope that they donít notice Iím attacking on sea also so I can have 4 vs. 1 numbers on sea battle for the first 1-2 enemy Ships I encounter. My land army will prevent any walling, and start killing woodies. Reinforcements come as soon as the group is all made.
2- When there are no more enemy Scout Ships left, I stop building Scout Ships, and spend all of my wood on Archeries and Stables at my forward base. I usually stop making Scout Ships after my second wave, giving me a TTL of 7-8 Scout Ships at enemy docks.

Upon arriving to Bronze Age around 15:20:
1- I make 5 villas at TC, do Fishing Ship upgrade, War Galley upgrade, and research the Wheel.
2- I exhaust all gold building Camels at forward base (1-3).
3- Once dock upgrades are complete, I will build 2 Fishing Ships from each dock.
4- I will make a Gov Center at home base
5- My forwards will make a TC
6- I will make several TCís by Gold and also by other Forests in my home base.

I will send in my 2-3 Camels, and spend most of my time expanding econ. Iím going from 53 vills to 80+ by 20:00. I will spend all surplus resources on army at forward base. Chariot Archers assisted by Cavalry and Camels is my big Bronze Army. I will attack when I have groups of 15-20+. I will boom (make units nonstop) CAís, Cavalry, Camels, and villas until game over. If necessary I will advance to Iron Age (with a villa count of 100-140), and finish with Horse Archers, Scythe, and Cats.

Overall: I like this strat against boomers. I can do a 50 villa boom against someone that does a 40-45 villa boom, Tool quicker, and have more resources to have a nice Tool Navy and Army without compromising my Bronze time.

This strat has got some wins against a couple Tool rushers also. A rusher has to be good to Tool in under 8:00 and hunt down fishing boats at four different docks that are a full screen apart. I will house wall immediately if an opponent Tools in under 11:00. As soon as I Tool against a poor rusher it is Game Over. Good rushers will have their hands full back at home once I Tool, and I will beat them to Bronze with double the econ.

AuthorReplies:
Multi Beast 28
Clubman
posted 07-05-00 03:18 AM ET (US)     1 / 10       
Interesting strat. My thing about it is, you hit bronze upgrade at 13 mins, what if you opponent bronzes in 13 mins or under? If you hit tool button at 10 mins, you wont be tool untill roughly 12 mins, and it takes some time to build a army, at least a minute to build one big enough to do some damage. By then they would already be bronze, and there goes tool army. If you can find them in under 8 mins, i can see how it works, but if not, the enemy probably walled. However, that strat does would give you good economy, but i probably would save resources for bronze army and defend my town first. Also a good tool rusher will be attacking you before you even hit tool button. Yes, a tool rusher may miss your fish boats, but without wood, theres not much you can do.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 07-05-00 01:52 PM ET (US)     2 / 10       
Multi Beast 28:

Thanx for the comments.

A 13:00 Bronze doesn't scare me with this strat. The biggest weakeness with this strat is what the opponent does from 12:30 and under. Meaning I have to be hit hard-- really hard before then to slow my econ down.

If I reach 13:00 with little damage, it is game over -- regardless of what age they are in. A slinger/scout combo in a city and a group of 4-8 scout ships at their docks is hard to overcome even if they rush to Bronze in like 13:00 and have no resources. They will be playing catch up on villa count and resources the rest of the game and will never catch me.

I like this strat a little more than a 36-38 vill 9:00-9:30 Tool because it forces them to have a serious Tool War to win. If I do a 10:00 and under Tool, the pressure is on me to utilize the early Tool. Interestingly enough, my wood doesn't seem to support a good Navy when I do a 36-38 vill 9:00-9:30 Tool. At 12:00 I struggle to have more than 4 Scout Ships, and I usually have a lil lag waiting for food to Bronze, with no Tool army.

Basically by 12:30 the Shang 50 villie strat will simply run over this strat. If they Tool rush, they have no resources to Bronze--it becomes a do or die attack for them. I can have a good Tool attack, and a monster Bronze attack.

Ultimately it comes down to forcing your opponent to Tool early having resources to attack on land and sea and take their chances with a Tool attack, both land and sea, sacrificing their Bronze time, to win against this strat.

Dave
Clubman
posted 07-05-00 05:16 PM ET (US)     3 / 10       
Blitz, I have been using pretty much the same strat and have been getting similar results. It is indeed a nice lil strat. (good detailed explanation BTW).

The only thing is that it has made me curious ...

I remember reading several posts in this forum where other
experts were talking about boom strats with similar vil counts and econ strength but with bronze times of like 13 minutes.

I am trying to figure out how they achieve strong econs with such a bronze time.

Do you (or anybody else) have any idea how to do this?

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 07-05-00 06:32 PM ET (US)     4 / 10       
Dave:

My strat I posted here I had only 5 real villas on one food source (berries) all during Stone Age. To get a faster Tool time and Bronze time, all you have to do is have some woodies work on an additional food source to Tool. You sacrifice wood = a few less fishing boats in return for your better Tool and Bronze times.

I like to take my chances for the bigger pop and more wood, but a second food source for real villies speeds up the Age times a lot.

Dave
Clubman
posted 07-05-00 07:18 PM ET (US)     5 / 10       
Blitz:

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, several times I had tried pulling some woodies and putting them on another food source to get a faster bronze time. But what happens is that it gets a little tight on wood so the fb production is slower and the food coming in from the boats is slower. In the end, things balance out and I wind up with pretty much the same bronze time as if I had simply put all but 5 vils on wood.

So maybe there is something I am missing. I am still experimenting to try to find the proper balance...

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 07-06-00 03:46 AM ET (US)     6 / 10       
How about moving those 5 villies to wood once the boats bring in enough food to maintain villie production?
Multi Beast 28
Clubman
posted 07-06-00 03:54 AM ET (US)     7 / 10       
blitz:

I do like your strat, and i follow a similar strategy with minoan, because of cheap boats, you can boat boom like crazy even in stone age. I was just pointing out worst case scenarios. Me personally, i usually tool with 28 villagers, and build around 15 fb's, maybe more, and save resources for bronze age. Build defense early and a tool army if necissary. This way, i can build tons of comp bowman and navy, since comp bowman dont require wood, build seige in mid bronze if i have to. So all in all, i do like your strat Ill have to try it sometime since i usually dont use shang.

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 07-06-00 05:15 PM ET (US)     8 / 10       
Multi Beast 28:

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the Shang boom. I think most people forgot about Shang after they were toned down in the patch, but they can still outboom Minoan.

It is important to keep your ratio of woodies/fbs balanced. Too many boomers are having higher fbs, and are not getting the woodpile for a Tool navy. I choose to make more woodies as well as fb's, hoping I can make it to 13:00-13:30 without a major catastrophe. I do have the wood for a Navy then.

Shang has a more mobile Bronze army than Minoan. A Chariot Archer, Cavalry, Camel army vs. a Compie and Stone Thrower army should do well in Bronze as long as you don't let the Minoan acquire 15-20+ compies.


Dave:

I usually immediately send all villas back to wood after I hit Tool button. If I didn't get a lot of fishing boats made, I will keep 5 on food to help get to Bronze.

SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 07-06-00 11:25 PM ET (US)     9 / 10       
2 things:

If you do this strat, make sure you'll brz under 14:10 max with a 11:00 tool time or less and some tool army on the ennemy...

Otherwise, a good tool rusher is gonna spank your ass all the time... Good tool rusher=being tool under 10:00 easily...with bunch of army already and more comnig

sai_so
Clubman
posted 07-10-00 02:50 AM ET (US)     10 / 10       
nice strat, wish I was a faster player so I could use it.
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