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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » macros are they here to stay? and part of your strategy?
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Topic Subject:macros are they here to stay? and part of your strategy?
sai_so
Clubman
posted 06-27-00 03:12 PM ET (US)         
hi aoe forum peeps just posting the macro topic here and there as the first step in trying to have a bug fixed. Plus to have a level playing field for all players.

For a long time macros have been in use by many players in all 3 age games, Age of Empires, Rise of Rome and Age of Kings. The users just didn't share with other players that they had the macro speed advantage.
A keyboard macro lets the user program hotkeys and mouse movements all under one key.

For example in a deathmatch game the user could click on one villager, type F1 and have 50 stable foundations,20 town centers, castle foundations,barracks foundations all placed on the map in less than a second.....all of this with ONE key. An entire military can be produced the same way. There are thousands of ways to configure macros for the aoe games.

In AoE deathmatches players are getting to pop 200 in less than 4 mins A bad bug is that many times units will be trained *in unbuild foundations* <<<<this bug NEEDS to be addressed by ES/MS.

Should macros be included in games so all players have a Level playing field? what do you think?

AuthorReplies:
Dave
Clubman
posted 06-27-00 03:57 PM ET (US)     1 / 22       
Oh boy! I didn't even know that such macros existed! There I was clicking on everything one at a time. Are macros accepted tools in multi-player games or are they considered cheats? How do you make a macro anyway?
sai_so
Clubman
posted 06-27-00 04:28 PM ET (US)     2 / 22       
About a year ago I was watching a player build and he layed barracks foundations much faster than I could hold shift and place, place, I asked him HOW? that's when I first noticed a macro in use. I think at this point in time about HALF zone multiplayers use a macro. The macro issue/debates will become VERY common soon.

I'm not sure if a macro is cheating or an advantage like a better computer/mouse ect.

I don't have a 3rd party keyboard macro program. However I'm considering the new microsoft game pad coming out this fall. It is a macro designed by microsoft for use in games aoe/ror and AoKings.

I have 2 mice both work on this computer are they cheating or advantage you tell me?
ms scroll mouse : scroll up :creates 5 knights, scroll down: creates 5 villies, press middle: go to last sound

trackman 5 buttons I keep changing the 5 buttons it has 100's of changes, button 1 create 5 in all military buildings (I group all buildings under hotkey #1 first) button #2-create 5 villagers in all TCs (group all TC under hotkey#2first)

let the debates continue macro users who will be first to write a strat?

SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 06-27-00 07:34 PM ET (US)     3 / 22       
SuN_Cam_Popov= Doesn't use macros and proud of

I think it's only a lame way to get your level higher

Flawless Angel
Banned
posted 06-27-00 09:28 PM ET (US)     4 / 22       
I'm proud to say that I DON'T use marcos. I consider them cheats. It's simply not fair if one player can't do something quickly because he doesn't have a marco.

I'm also proud to say that my win/loose ratio is about 49/1 on good days, and 20/30 on VERY bad days, uh, nights.

------------------
-- Vladislav --
------------------

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 06-27-00 11:09 PM ET (US)     5 / 22       
ok, this is a touchy issue I'm sure, and here's where I stand.

1. I do believe macros are an unfair advantage, but I also believe having a faster computer an unfair advantage, but is it cheating? no.

I use all kinds of macros throughout my computer, and it saves me a lot of time. I am experimenting with them for aoe, and I don't find them that useful. The best I came up with was basically replacements for the many hotkeys I thank MS for including. Anything really significant (like a hotkey to automatically have two villies build a house, que four more villies, press f11 and f4) were utter failures because there is no way for macros to get synced with the game. For example, when that little afore mentioned hotkey was pressed, four c's would be pressed before h had acted and selected my tc.

Don't get me wrong, it is helpful, but mostly scrictly for unit production. The things I really want it to do would have to be integrated into the game. My point is, you may not be able to get a new computer just to be competitive on gig maps, but there is little to stop everyone from getting macros.

BTW, just for the record, after a little experimenting, I just decided to become more acquainted with the hotkeys. If macros become commonplace in the zone, I will just get out my own guns. (I didn't try that hard since I was just experimenting, but I can certainly take full advantage of macros if it becomes a matter of equalization rather than advantage.) Bottom line, I won't complain either way.

------------------
Remember, AoE loves you when everyone else thinks you are an asshole.

Flawless Angel
Banned
posted 06-28-00 01:31 AM ET (US)     6 / 22       
If I see that he has 20 Siege WKShops in less than 5 secs, all I do is... Hit the F7 button They play unfair, well, so do I.

I know if I get cheated I should resign... but I think it's more fun to get your own trainer, and give that )&^#)&@*#@%#@%)*#&%@^)&# cheater the surprise of his life! YAH!!!

------------------
-- Vladislav --
------------------

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-28-00 03:12 AM ET (US)     7 / 22       
I don't use macros, and to be quite honest with you I didn't know you could use them in AoE or RoR. What I have done though is develop a very good system using the Hot Keys and Numbering System the game developers provided. I have a system for numbering docks, explorers, scouts, and archery ranges. I feel that using this system I'm not sure if I would use macros - but then again I don't play a lot of DM's.
sai_so
Clubman
posted 06-28-00 07:47 AM ET (US)     8 / 22       
macros are to fast to be any kind of fair advantage.

Flawless, this is not a trainer, it's a macro. I don't want to fight back against cheaters with a trainer (I want anyone opening ANY trainer on the zone banned for life)

How can you see what the enemy is building anyway? hhmmm ?

Boneser again
Clubman
posted 06-28-00 09:39 AM ET (US)     9 / 22       
I don't agree with the use of macros in an a game. It is just an unfair advantage and takes some of the skill out of playing. But as someone has said already, this would seem to be mainly a death match strat, since building twenty buildings simultaneously would take a fair bit of resources.

If the DM'ers agree to macros before starting the game, I guess it would be OK but only then.

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 06-28-00 10:58 PM ET (US)     10 / 22       
I have the Gravis Xterminator game pad.
It is a wonderfull pad for flight sims, even better than a lot of joysticks, esp if you need a lot of controls mapped. If someone were to play against me in say, freespace 2 using just their keyboard, is that an unfair advantage for me? Yes. So should I put away my gamepad? No. I paid a fair amount of money for that pad, it cost me dearly. I did that because I didn't want to use the keyboard, and I have a lot more fun when I use it instead. In similar fashion, I don't enjoy manually queing up 30 units. Using macros is not nearly such an advantage as my gamepad. The nature of multiplayer competition is to find better ways to do things, and the nature of losers is to cheat. There must be a clear line between cheating and other advantages. I don't see that anyone here has accused macros of being a way to cheat, but I don't believe an "unfair advantage" is whining about. Nothing will ever be fair, unless you <rise> to the more efficient ways, and bawl out those who <stoop> to cheating.

someone with macros beats someone without.
someone with better macros beats them both.
someone who cheats should be kicked out.

I have no moral problem with any method of gameplay or third party help that only and strictly increases efficiency and/or makes control easier.

Thank god we don't have people complaining about the guy in quake who had an unfair advantage because he used a mouse while we were all using the D-pad.

No offense is intended, and I would like to reiterate that I am not presently using macros for games. Just please don't rag on those who do because they have found ways to enhance our gameplay. Rag on those Goddamn cheaters.

Hey, just a thought. We all read strategy stuff here. Does that give us an unfair advantage over those who don't? Or should they read strategy too?

Also, Blitz mentioned that he has developed a good system using the hotkeys. Macro users also design their own macros, is that so different? Surely no one would object to Blitz's system that he put a lot of effort into working out.

[This message has been edited by HonoredMule (edited 06-28-2000).]

Flawless Angel
Banned
posted 06-29-00 06:00 AM ET (US)     11 / 22       
If I see +50 cats arrive at 1 min, I know that they have been cheating.

------------------
-- Vladislav --
------------------

sai_so
Clubman
posted 06-29-00 07:09 AM ET (US)     12 / 22       
lol Flawless, yes I agree 50 cats at one min. would freak me as much as seeing the big daddies

I think macros are here to stay, the only bad thing about the macro advantage is that it was HIDDEN.

No expert ever mentioned macro use in their strats. So now macro use is more fair because all players are informed.

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 06-29-00 02:12 PM ET (US)     13 / 22       
hey, good pt. We shouldn't hide the fact that we use them if we really don't think it unfair.
Dave
Clubman
posted 06-29-00 04:40 PM ET (US)     14 / 22       
How do you make these macros anyway?
HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 06-29-00 04:48 PM ET (US)     15 / 22       
You need a program like Macro Express, and windows scripting host must be installed. (check your windows setup tab in add/remove progs, in control panel)

To make them you can use wizards that take you step-by-step through the process, or you can become famaliar with your prog and do a much better job by hand. (note the irony)

It's not complicated, but it takes a little thought as to how to acomplish the desired task, and how to keep it from interfering with other functions in the game. You don't need any programming skill at all.

sai_so
Clubman
posted 06-30-00 01:39 AM ET (US)     16 / 22       
found it!here's the url for the macro express
http://www.macros.com/index.htm it has 30 days free, I'm going to check it out.
HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 07-02-00 02:35 AM ET (US)     17 / 22       
I mentioned macro express because it is the program I use, but lemme be straight wit ya.

I do have some problems with it, as there have been a few things I couldn't do when I think I should be able to. However, I have found nothing to compete with it decently.

If it is going to work, you have to have windows scripting host installed, which isn't a problem, but I should make you all aware of this.
scripthost is used by viruses these days to execute macros that damage your system. This is not in my mind a serious thing, since usually these viruses are embedded in documents and spreadsheets, (but also other email attachments) and you have to run them still, but you should be aware. Having an updated antivirus is much more important, though.

If you are not squeemish, try it out.


all in all, macro express is a fairly good prog, and will probably satisfy most of ya.

[This message has been edited by HonoredMule (edited 07-02-2000).]

Multi Beast 28
Clubman
posted 07-03-00 08:55 PM ET (US)     18 / 22       
macros are for idiots, if you cant hold down ctrl or shfit button and click out units, you must not be very smart, yes it may save you a few seconds, but why bother doing that, instead of hitting 2 buttons you hit 1, big deal, i can reach a pop of over 300 without it in dms (in pop 200 games)i dont consider it a cheat, i think its just lazy
HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 07-04-00 11:37 AM ET (US)     19 / 22       
I will bother to reply to this guy only if anyone else at all shares that opinion.
Multi Beast 28
Clubman
posted 07-04-00 12:16 PM ET (US)     20 / 22       
Basically what im trying to say is, it is not necessary to use macros. What i dont understand is, when you use a macro to build 30 archery, 15 seige, houses, etc. does it just randomly place it anywhere? If it does then that equals quick loss. I only see macros being useful for deathmatches for making units quicker, but you can still make them pretty fast just using hot keys, and half the strat behind that is where you place all your buildings.
sai_so
Clubman
posted 07-10-00 02:27 AM ET (US)     21 / 22       
oh well, macros are here to stay in aoe and thats for sure.

I agree with you it's almost as fast to do it your self except...

deathmatch players can set all their buildings with one key (or in blocks of 10/20)and some RM players have their entire first mins done for them with macros. (it's much faster)
It sounds so boring to me to use macro-starts because I like the starts.

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 07-10-00 10:27 PM ET (US)     22 / 22       
trust me, macros don't make anything boring. in fact, it gets more interresting because a lot of strategy goes into designing them and knowing when and how to use them. I can type 45 wpm (not kidding) and mactos are still 20-30 times faster than going from building to building hitting each key tons of times. If I had used macros when I played combat ace and mano tonight, I would have done much better had I not lost SO many ships while queing up more (it was a small isles 1v1v1 pop 50 dm)
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