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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Newbies aren't for breakfast anymore.
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Topic Subject:Newbies aren't for breakfast anymore.
Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 04:12 AM ET (US)         
Before I even start, I must tell you I am a...gulp..."Rookie." That info is simply to help in understanding from which viewpoint this post was written.
As I have played on the Zone over the past 4 months I have seen a steady decline in the number of RoR players online.
As I am sure you all have. As I have read on the forum the most common opinion is that this is due to the rising interest in the AoK. I agree with that...no disputing it. And as our friends depart into the grand world of castles and knights, I say...SCREW EM! Wow, where did that come from? This brings me to the main point of this post, "Newbies."

Members of the forum, believe it or not, there are new players on the Zone almost every single night. In my opinion these players are the most logical solution to the problem at hand. Can you "Intermediates" and "Experts" even remember the first game you played on the Zone? Remember the rush, heart pounding, knees shaking, etc. Well, this is occuring within the walls of the Zone each night for a few "Newbies." I believe what is happening is this: they log on for the first time, they get their ass kicked by some "Rookie" or "Intermediate" that's in a bad mood and they simply don't come back. Only the strong survive you might say...true. However is it not our responsibility to help these players get stronger, rather than discouraged? Is there something we can actually setup to help these players grow into the game, just as the first AoE online players did? Maybe nightly clinics hosted by a good "Intermediate" or "Expert."

I honestly believe if we don't do something soon concerning retention of "Newbies" it will be too late. Then all we will have left is the forum to reminisce about the old days. Please keep in mind that the new players that log onto the Zone tonight are the future of the game online. I'm not an idiot, I know nothing lasts forever, but "Rise of Rome's time is not up yet. Not as long as "Newbies" are logging on to play. So lets see some ideas. In closing allow me to give props to BlitzkreigComin. He took the time to show me a few strats in a coop. That simple thing kept me on the Zone.

AuthorReplies:
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 07:13 AM ET (US)     1 / 15       
and the weird thing is there is more ppl playing aoe than ror....... if only all those ppl got a copy of the expansion...... ror would be saved........
Dave
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 10:10 AM ET (US)     2 / 15       
Yes, yes! Great idea! Clincs! Experts? Whaddya say? BTW, I started a post sometime ago entitled "Tourney anyone?" with this same goal in mind, but alas, there was not enough interest. Maybe this new thread will help break the ice.

Don't despair blackheart, the other day I bought RoR. There's still people discovering AoE and RoR for the first time.

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 01:05 PM ET (US)     3 / 15       
This is a subject that bothers me a lot. Very few players anymore make the transition from newbie/rookie to an avid Zone player on nightly.

It seems like for a week or two someone will give the game a try. In that time they are abused in every way. From picking the "wrong civ", or "Tooling too early", or not being able to dock boom and build a massive army at same time. "My partner is a damn rookie" is a chat I've seen across my screen from opponents more than once. Then that teammate makes it a point to tell all his friends that so and so sucks and to never play with him.

Sure everyone hates to get into a 3v3 and one of your partners is a newbie. But what do we do about it.

Rookies and Newbies lose ....a lot. I think my winning percentage was about 20% my first 50 games. I tried deathmatches, rated games, esquiline, and viminal. I was lost and just looking for any way to win. Not very many people are going to stick around for more than two weeks getting destroyed. My second game I played an ass (I wish I could remember his name)who knew I was newbie, built wonders, a maze of walls and towers to his wonder, and had about 150 heavy cats. I think I had 23 villas, and a total pop of about 75. I had 1 seige workshop and 1 stable. He never offered any advice, just was amused as I tried to work through his "maze".

I see newbies nightly on the Zone. I'm on every night and have seen the Zone go from 800 to 600 players nightly. I think "newbies" get sh*t on every night. They are easy targets for people that can't beat anyone else.

My solution is for everyone to play a game or two with newbies. Don't be an ass, but help them. When they do something you wouldn't normally do tell them. I think it is simple to be in a game and say (politely) "We are all going to need a Navy in Tool", or after someone Tools with 12-15 villas say "I normally have 23-25 villas before I Tool so I can have a stronger army/econ."

I've seen Anti_Peace hold clinics doing coops trying to get a bigger pool of players on the Zone. I think this is great seeing how most "experts" are too good for anyone and have to put "You must know someone to play in here". I bet that is fun with the 10-15 "experts" they know that are left in RoR for them to play any time they want a game. Whatever we do to help is only going to help the game.

Thanks for the props Leper.

[This message has been edited by BlitzkreigComin (edited 05-03-2000).]

Dave
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 01:45 PM ET (US)     4 / 15       
BlitzkreigComin:

If I may say so, on behalf of the newbies and rooks: Thank you for your comments.

It is indeed difficult on the zone when most of the time, you aren't sure what you are doing. I get my butt kicked around those maps pretty good everytime I go on. Suspiciously, my opponents always seem to be much more skilled than rooks - and those are supposed to be strictly rookie rooms. I don't know - maybe it isn't intermediates picking on rooks but that I am worse than I thought!?

At any rate, it sure would be great to have a few of these clinics. I have been reading strats and these posts but it's not the same as playing a lot against human players. But if your opponent kills you off in 15 minutes you never really get enough experience. You just wind up doing the same old preliminary stuff to try to get your econ off to a good start but then wham! - you're out.

Queen hatsepsut
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 02:36 PM ET (US)     5 / 15       
(the tables some are sitting at burst out into a round of huzzahs and clapping. pandemonium ensues)
butch26
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 02:39 PM ET (US)     6 / 15       
no dave, your not worse than you thought. Probably better than 50% of the people in the rook rooms are far from rooks. I pretty much gave up on playing online for that reason. I just got so sick and tired of going into a newbie or rook game and getting attacked by 30 cavs before i could even bronze. 90% of my online games were short, boring, pointless, and onesided. I will admit though, i have had the pleasure of playing some very good ones too. but more than likely, its loosing to a very good player who cares about nothing other than his win %. Unfortunatly i doubt i will ever play on the zone again (except when i only have 15 or 20 minutes to play, plenty of time for an expert or intermediate to beat me, but not enough time for a campaign) and continue playing against the computer and downlading cpn out of the grainary. when i have completed those, i imagine i will have to buy aok
Oh, and by the way, dont ever enter a game with the title" me, him and so and so against three others", i find those are the biggest setups

[This message has been edited by butch26 (edited 05-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by butch26 (edited 05-03-2000).]

Dave
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 04:23 PM ET (US)     7 / 15       
Hey butch26, how about this ... I'll play ya. I promise to not "have 30 cav in your town before you bronze"
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 05:00 PM ET (US)     8 / 15       
Some rookies have an ego, too. I'm talking about the kind who rush you with their first bowman (singular, unupgraded tool bowman) 30 mins into the game while using all the taunts they can find, and resign when they see your army.
 
What I used to do when I realized I was against a newbie (1v1) was tool fast, and wall him into his own town without gold.
 
I waited till he got to bronze (usually very late) and met the wall with his chariots, then I asked him if he'd like some playing advice.
 
Rookies can easily be categorized into 2 groups at that point: those who just "GO! GO! GO!" and probably won't get past intermediate, which resign, and those who can someday become experts, which have a sense of humor.
 
The ones who stay, I help. I actually enjoy taking these wise newbies as allies, since they will execute their part of a team plan *perfectly*. I tell them what civ to take, show them how to play it, and they follow the team plan.
 
It's good for both: they learn, and I get a team-playing partner so we can do two 2v1s instead of two 1v1s. Next I introduce them to the world of tribber+soldier, which is wonderfully effective if both do their job.
 
When to I stop teaching them? When they choose to leave. I always have more to teach, since I keep learning and trying new things myself.
 
Ideally, at any one time I have an intermediate-level student and a rookie-level student. I believe I already explained the roman+minoan+palmyran team strat in another thread?
Wild1234
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 07:25 PM ET (US)     9 / 15       
yea, sad how the rookie rooms are more or less just the general play rooms...

I remember my first game on the zone, I got scared so bad I diddnt play another online game for a month... my poor scout ships and archers being killed by trimmes

I do remember how much it helped when I found someone that would talk to me after wiping me out. The person really helped me to learn how to play the game. I miss those good games, trying new stuff and just having fun getting killed

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 07:44 PM ET (US)     10 / 15       
butch26 and Dave

Add me to your Zone Friends (BlitzkreigComin) and we will play some games. I can help you get your game to an intermediate level with some practice. We can play those typical Medit reveal maps and we can be either teammates or coop --- See you on the Zone (I'm on every night and all weekend).

Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 09:54 PM ET (US)     11 / 15       
Dave & butch26

Please also add my Zone name to your friends list. I have a group of people I hang with, so you can get some games in with playerw of equal ability. I go by same name Sumerian_Leper. Blitz likes to make cracks, in the settings room, about the Leper's unit falling off...cause that is the only way his will ever be bigger.(lol) Sorry Queen if you read that last line!

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 09:57 PM ET (US)     12 / 15       
lol leper
Lotus_Esprit_V8
Clubman
posted 05-03-00 11:01 PM ET (US)     13 / 15       
Well, that changes just about everything I used to do. I remember when I was a rookie, I got made fun of alot when I bronzed 30 mins. I can't believe that I am one of those people, I disgust myself now!!! Yech! I have to change, thanks for starting this topic, it's "opened my eyes"...

------------------
Vladislav
Zone: _Lost_Atlantis_

butch26
Clubman
posted 05-04-00 02:37 PM ET (US)     14 / 15       
add me to yours too butcher26
I dont usually have time during the week, but am almost allways online in the evenings on weekends.
Dave
Clubman
posted 05-04-00 02:53 PM ET (US)     15 / 15       
Well last night I went on the zone firstly because I was curious about the wedsaz game but also to do a little playing!

Thanks again BlitzkreigComin for the great game and tips, suggestions and most of all, your time. Really appreciate it!

Sorry I was a bad ally and died too soon - I guess that didn't help you out much. But at least once you die you can see everything and I learned a lot just watching the remaining 3 play against each other.

If there are any other newbies or rooks out there who would like games or to benefit from stuff I have been learning (I know some things that need to be done but have yet to master how to execute!) feel free to ZM me too - origdavedave.

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