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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Wedsaz, Read this plz...
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Topic Subject:Wedsaz, Read this plz...
CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 01:56 PM ET (US)         
I hear your a consistant 11 min bronzer, and i belive it, just go to the zone into an expert room and there are many games that say, "11 min bronzers only!"

So anyway, can you tell me your strat? im a DM-er and im really slow getting through the age's in a RM. the thing that bothered me about RM was it takes me forever to get to bronze! So being able to do a 12 or 13 min bronze would be wonderful for me!! oh and i only have AoE, not RoR.

AuthorReplies:
EdgeCrusher6
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 02:05 PM ET (US)     1 / 24       
Wedsaz dosn;t even have the game to show it to you on
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 03:40 PM ET (US)     2 / 24       
CoMBaT_Villager:
Some civs are faster than others.
 
Minoan can do a 12 minute bronze, and here's how:
1. build 2 houses and a storage pit
2. put all your villies on wood, your 5th or 6th should go build 2 docks
3. make fishing boats, and as food comes in make some more villies but stop at 12. Put them all on wood.
4. advance to tool as soon as you have 500 food, build a barracks and granary while tooling
5. in tool, build a market or stable while you make 4 villies and put them on gold
6. build an archery or stable and advance to bronze
 
You tool will be a bit slow (9 mins or so) but with a bit of practice you can bronze in 12 mins like this.
 
I don't know if phoenie is patched in AoE, if not then you can do the same thing with them.
 
I know shang can bronze in 12, and yassy around 14 with a land economy, but I'm a beached whale on land so I don't know how.
 
Persian *can* bronze in 11 mins because of their 65% faster hunting, but it takes much practice. I recommend you get the other economies straight for a while.
SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 07:47 PM ET (US)     3 / 24       
Wedsaz? Can ya explain me how the hell this shitty eco can do something later in the game? What you expect to do with that? only 12 reals? wow! I could easily boom like an ass vs this strat and do a 70 villies in 16:30 brz, that'd be cool...and being easily stone-walled in in stone age...

Combat Villager: try this...a very safe brz time under 14 mins easily. Find berries (of sf, only faster) and put 5 guys on it (4 if shnags). Pit by forest (unless you got sf-forest by pit start) and then dock as soon as ya can. Should be before min 5:30 (dock by fishing...not in middle of nowhere). Then, place a new food building (for your real villies) next to berries (send 5 villies) or dumbos (send 6 hunters)or 3-4 sf (send 1 villie per sf)... Stop real villies count at 20 (safe number if you aren't used to do that) and never stop doing FB in stone age (but stop like 30 secs after you clicked tool button). You'll click tool button between 7:00 and 8:30. I use 24 or 25 real villies me and get those results.

Build the barrack and then make sure you got the required 300 wood for the tool buildings (market and stable...not archery), Build those 2 and then click brz (you'll have enough food). Initial food villies (the first 4-5) goes on wood when they are done with their duties.

This is a safe strat for a brz under 14 without too much problems...But don't forget to wall in while brzing.

BTW, I'd rather do a 40 villies and 9:00-10:00 tool time and tool rush then using that...but if you want a decent brz time, this is how you can do it on any water maps.

It works also on hills btw...but you won't have SF ;-) and no docks means you'll need a 3rd food source for your real villies in stone age and that your initial berrymen are gonna go on another food source too (your 4th)...

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 08:04 PM ET (US)     4 / 24       
Combat_Villager:
Don't villies take 30 seconds to train? With a total of 20 villies, you couldn't click for tool before 8:30. 25? 11:00.
 
That means:
1. 20 villies = 10:30 tool = 14:00 bronze at best
2. 25 villies = 13:00 tool = 16:00 bronze at best
 
Of course, that's assuming someone doesn't bronze in 12 and raid your town with 5-6 cavs.
 
Reminder: that comes out to 12 woodies, 4 goldies and 24 boats. That's more than enough food, wood and gold to make a very decent bronze army, like 10 cavs/camels, 30 compies and 10 STs. Also, the small villie population can increase rather fast once you reach bronze and make multiple TCs.
SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 08:10 PM ET (US)     5 / 24       
I'll say it again (sorry): you're a rook. Villies takes 30 secs to train?

Man, you gotta start playing this game and stop saying you brz in 10 secs ;-)

I do 24-25 reals and I'm able to do 13:00...like it or not...and my villies number is 'bout 45-50 villies at min 15:00 or so (this is with shangs)- and I made that very often recently so I know what I'm talknig 'bout.

CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 09:32 PM ET (US)     6 / 24       
Well, i tried wedsaz's strat and i bronzed in 15:02 mins and had plenty for an army, i tried Cams strat and i bronzed in 17:30 mins and had a tiny bit more stuff. For me, wedsaz's strat is the best ive tried so far, just gotta work on it more. And i had a crappy map when i tried wedsaz's, the stuff was miles away. the map was pretty good when i tried cams. Hunting isnt very good when going for a 12 min bronze, even worse when your hunting dear, they run off making take forever to carry food back, or of course you could take the time to "Heard" the deer to your base
CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 09:35 PM ET (US)     7 / 24       
oh, on speed 1.0 it takes about 28 seconds to make a villager
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 10:02 PM ET (US)     8 / 24       
I find hunting works much better if you first kill the deer, and then put down the storage pit.
 
Yes, the fastboom is reliable, but beware of tool wars.

[This message has been edited by wedsaz (edited 04-21-2000).]

Dave
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 00:52 AM ET (US)     9 / 24       
BTW is hunting really better than farming?

With hunting you have to chase the wildlife around plus you probably need the storage pit which costs wood. For about the same amount of wood you get a farm near the TC which gives a lot of food too.

So which is better and why?

Dave
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 00:56 AM ET (US)     10 / 24       
Wedsaz, in your bronze strat, how many boats should you make? Or do you keep pumping them out as much as your wood supply allows?
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 01:15 AM ET (US)     11 / 24       
Hunting takes some practice to get right, but yes it's better. Not because hunting is very good, but because farming is very bad. For less wood than 2 farms, you can put 6-10 villies gathering food independently, about 1/8th faster food too. Meanwhile, putting more than 1 villager per farm doesn't give you more food. Shorefish and berries are better than hunting, unless you're persian.
 
I used to stop making boats for a moment in tool to get my market and archery up. Also back then people didn't use warboats much, now you may want to make 3-4 warboats for defense and pump more if you get attacked. You may also want to make a few trade boats to trade food for gold, so you can put some of the gold miners in bronze on wood instead. That would give you a better chance if there's a boat war, I think.
 
When I started using this strat, I was a newbie myself. I tried to do the assy CA rush and the yam cav rush, but couldn't do it half as well as the intermediates and experts on the zone, so I poured over manuals and strat sites trying to find something new. Strat sites said minoan compies were very strong, but that they were a "slow civ" which could only bronze in 16 mins. I saw their boat bonus, and thought of the fastest of the popular civs at the time... shang. Shang has cheap villagers, which makes them fast. Minoan, likewise, is fast because of their cheap boats. It takes them longer to get started, but you can make them from multiple docks so end up with more villagers when you arrive in bronze.
CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 02:40 AM ET (US)     12 / 24       
ok how about this...


since fishing boats seem to be a very important part of the 11 min bronze...

..............................what about highland?

Dave
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 02:49 AM ET (US)     13 / 24       
Hmmm...

I used wedsaz' bronze strat with minoan and I got tool in 10 min and bronze in 14:30.

Considering that before the best I could ever do was tool in 11 min and bronze in 20 min, I'm pretty happy with the improvement. I might have been able to do better but I goofed on the planning for the housing and had to sometimes wait for them to be built before I could continue. Also, I had a bad starting location and my scouting for resources was not very effcient, so I lost more time looking for food and wood.

But yes wedsaz, as Combat Villager asks, what about on inland maps?


CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 03:05 AM ET (US)     14 / 24       
not inland, theres small bodys of water with enough fish in them to do the bronze strat up there... i mean highland! theres nothing but land and maybe one river... i just wonder how the strat changes, caus with out all those ships bringing in food it would take a while gathering berries and junk...
Dave
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 03:21 AM ET (US)     15 / 24       
Oops, o.k. I meant highland too
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 05:24 AM ET (US)     16 / 24       
Combat_Villager:
I rarely play highland or hills, and most of my strats don't work there.
 
Persian could get to bronze in 11 on hills, since they can switch to berries after the hunting stops being good. However, the fishing is to provide them with a half-decent economy after mid-bronze, so if the inital cav rush isn't as strong as expected they could be in serious trouble on land maps.
 
Likewise, I wouldn't choose minoan on hills or highland. There isn't enough fish to put their boat bonus to good use.
 
Palmy really chew on the berries, so they may not be very good on maps where they can't do at least a small boat boom. Still, they are the only civ that actually farms faster so I'd try them before saying they're useless on land. They wouldn't be my top pick, though.
 
Phoenie's wood bonus can at least be applied to farming, and they don't have a high villie cost holding them back like palmy.
 
I've never done a successful CA rush. The 4 civs I had success with, on land maps: shang, roman, sumerian and babylon. The first 3 are fairly straightforward. With babylon I ran for an ultra-fast 7 min tool with only 12 villies, put 10 of them on stone while tooling, and literally walled across an entire huge hills map. Since it was a 3v3, that meant my allies were relatively safe until the enemies got to stone throwers, which can be a long way away on hills. Sure enough, about a minute later I saw 5-6 enemy (yamato) scouts at my wall. Had it not been there, I fear my hittite ally might not have made it to bronze. As it was, the wall stopped the scouts, and the hittite got to bronze. One of the enemies eventually did come with stone throwers, but I closed off a section before he finished breaking through. I also screamed for help, and my allies came with their armies.
 
I bronzed very late, but the whole game my wall served as a door, allowing my allies to attack without fear of retaliation and needing only minimal effort to defend. After that experience, I think I can safely say any civ can be useful in a team RM if used right. I wouldn't recommend this wall-blitz for rookies though, it's a bit risky and one missed wall spot can make the whole effort futile.
 
Anyway, I'm really not the one to ask for hills strats.

[This message has been edited by wedsaz (edited 04-22-2000).]

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 05:41 AM ET (US)     17 / 24       
One more tip about the minoan fastboom:
I usually use my dock villie to make houses after he made the docks, since I pretty much need a dedicated villager for housing and there isn't much else he can do so far from my wood pit. I often also use him to build a granary near a berry patch somewhere while tooling, since I don't really intend to go for berries but still need it to make a market in tool. Oh, and you can build the houses as "radar housing", spread out to detect building attempts on your land or to have a little more advance warning of attacks.
 
Scouting for food? Oh, you must mean fish, since my strat specifically prohibits picking berries.
 
Yeah, I've had a lot of bad luck myself when scouting for wood on non-medit maps. It's as if it somehow knows I want to dock boom and reveal isn't on, and carefully avoids putting any forests within a hundred tiles of my TC... I often end up having to go build in my ally's town to get wood.
Dave
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 09:36 AM ET (US)     18 / 24       
wedsaz,

Why is berry picking bad? Why do you avoid it until you have no more food sources left? Putting a granary near a berry bush patch early on is a good source of food, no? I guess you mean that hunting is better than berry picking? If so, please explain why.

Dave
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 09:44 AM ET (US)     19 / 24       
wedsaz, you also mentionned earlier that:

"Persian *can* bronze in 11 mins because of their 65% faster hunting"

Does that 65% come from RoR? In AoE it seems that the hunting bonus is 30%.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 08:18 PM ET (US)     20 / 24       
Dave:
Berry picking is usually better than hunting, but boat fishing is even better because while you can only train 1 villager at a time, you can make boats from many docks.
 
Farming is bad mostly because of the wood cost of the farms.
 
The persian hunting bonus is 0.30, which seems to be ES/MS's idea of 30%. However, when you take the normal hunting rate of 0.45 and add 0.30, it comes out to 0.75 which is an amazing 65% more food per second. Since RoR shore fishing has a rate of 0.60, persian hunting is still 25% faster. AoE shorefishing was 0.80, so persian was less worthwhile.
Wuzat
Clubman
posted 04-23-00 09:29 PM ET (US)     21 / 24       
its pentium math
SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 04-23-00 11:31 PM ET (US)     22 / 24       
Well, Combat_Villager, if you want, I can make a coop with ya and show ya how it works...

You'll be able to decided which strat is the best after ;-)

BTW, you can't do that on any maps. On some, it's better to tool rush (tool army will always beat brz army:early on), on other, boom is better (maybe not a stupid 50 villies thx...you'll never mamek that working vs good players: bu vs rooks it works).

So tell me your zone id, I'll msg ya for a coop if you want. BTW, 12:30-13:00 brz with 35 to 40 villies (or a bit more if you're shangs) isn't too bad. You have the eco to do 2 CA and 2 Camels non-stop while adding few real villies or FB, you choose.

CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-24-00 02:06 AM ET (US)     23 / 24       
ok cam, my zone ID is CoMBaT_ViLaGeR_ but the one i use most and probably will be on is x7x_Leader.
SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 04-24-00 04:16 AM ET (US)     24 / 24       
I've added ya...I'll msg ya when I'll see ya on.
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