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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » a plea for help
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Topic Subject:a plea for help
Ex_Rabbit
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 05:13 PM ET (US)         
Hi, a few of you may recognize me on zone, but a lot of you probably don't. I'm an average player (that's what i consider myself, but since most of the people in my clan play like newbies, I've been lifted on a pedestal), I CAN bronze in about 13 mins with assy (notice not yassy. i tried playing w/ yams, but found them too hard b/c of the gold requirements...could never figure out when to start mining it), but normally, i prefer to boom a bit, playing with shang a lot, and also minoans. with shang, I boom to about 35 (i have to stop because of wood constraints, another problem I seem to have), bronze in about 14:30 (kinda slow, I know). With minoans, that increases to about 16~16:30. Could someone PLEASE help me get better, a lot better? i'd like to be able to bronze in about 14 with 40 boats+vils.

I have a lot of problems adjusting to my rate of resource flow. I find that a lot of times, my wood levels are either REALLY high or REALLY low, and I can't time it so that it lands right in between. It's very frustrating to see about 400 wood and 400 food when i hit tool, or 700 food and 20 wood. Since I'm usually first to bronze anyways, i'm not too overly worried about that (although I'd still like to be better). The thing is, once i get to bronze, 1)i can't mix units well and coordinate a good attack, and 2)i can't figure out when is the right time to start going for iron. could someone who just totally blows everyone else away tutor me, give me a few pointers, let me watch a few of their games? I'd be most appreciative. actually, if people want to post messages giving me pointers, i'd be most appreciative too.

thanks,
Ex_Rabbit

P.S. for those of you who read the GX forum, yes, I posted this exact same message on there too. Now you know how desparate I am.


AuthorReplies:
Jehu
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 10:13 PM ET (US)     1 / 17       
Hi Rabbit

I wont try to answer this question because I have some of the same problems. I particularly seemed to have trouble with the wood/food mix leading up to bronze.

Also, you mentionee when to go iron. The other day I played a 2v2 with strangers. I boomed alittle and found myself in bronze with about 1200 food and 500 gold. I was totally unmolested, so I walled off between me and my nearest enemy and went for the quick iron. About half way through the iron upgrade I got hit hard by land and sea, and was killed within minutes. So I obviously don't know the answer to that question either.

I'll get out of the way and let someone answer your question now.

Jehu


orangepanther
Clubman
posted 12-08-98 02:11 PM ET (US)     2 / 17       
Hi everybody, i am not expert, but i might help.Always manage your vilagers ,never put on food or wod if you dont need it.Few days ago in game with Jehu and Sting, i was able to get to bronze in 14:30 with Phony and 32 vils,i could produce more boats,but it was inland.
My point is look for what you need, if you need wood get wood ,same goes too food.Dont relay only on fishing boats if you got little fish.By the way Jehu, can you tell me what happened and who won ? after, i was droped in that game.


Even when you lose,you gain more than somebody who didnt fought at all.

Jehu
Inactive
posted 12-08-98 03:15 PM ET (US)     3 / 17       
Hi Panther

I was fighting Grey while Sting was fighting Red. I thought I had killed grey off except for a few villagers I saw escape to reds area. As it turned out he would annoy me the rest of the game, but nothing significant. After basically killing Grey I joned Sting and we concentrated on Red. He had several priests backed by elephants, and cats, and had filled the shallows with trirenes. It took a lot of fighting but we finally ran Red out of his town. He retreated to Yellow's base at 3.
Our problem now was yellow and red had more ships than I have ever seen, and it was an inland map. We made some attempts to cross the shallows into yellows town but he had walled off with fortifications and we faced a constant hail storm from trirenes. We fought some sea battles trying to make them burn up their resources but no luck. I built 3 heavy transports and about 12 trirenes as escort. I wanted to occuppy the enemy ships with my trirenes while my trannies landed with an assortment of war elephnats, scyths and priests. No luck. I had to advance up the narrow water way at the edge of the map and he blocked me perfectly. I discarded the trannies and told Sting we should build a wonder. This was near the 2 hour mark.

We started mining stone like crazy and built up fortifications near my home towards the center. We finished the wonder and almost immediately were under attack. It was very close, but with Sting and I both playing Egypt we were able to hold it. They busted through our walls and pounded on the wonder once but we were able to convert and kill them before they finished destroying it. Even when we were down to 100 years left, I still didn't know if we could hold them off. WooooHooo!

Jehu


orangepanther
Clubman
posted 12-08-98 04:32 PM ET (US)     4 / 17       
oh ok Jehu, by the way werent you phony?and also would you like to join me in new FCuCA tournament?


Even when you lose,you gain more than somebody who didnt fought at all.

orangepanther
Clubman
posted 12-08-98 04:32 PM ET (US)     5 / 17       
oh ok Jehu, by the way, werent you playing phony?and also would you like to join me in new FCuCA tournament?


Even when you lose,you gain more than somebody who didnt fought at all.

Sting
Clubman
posted 12-08-98 04:45 PM ET (US)     6 / 17       
No I was phoe he was egypt

I am not used to playing phoe, but they are a pretty good civ I think I will play them more...if they only had HAs...


Jehu
Inactive
posted 12-09-98 05:11 PM ET (US)     7 / 17       
Panther,

If I have time I would be happy to team up with you. Unfortunately I haven't been able to join many tourneys because of conflicts, but we'll see how this one is laid out.

Rabbit

Lets get together and team up some. I don't remember if I have teamed with you yet. I've played with several Exs but I can't remember specifically who except for Trojan (recruited me), Cyboron (one win, one loss) and Monique (the only female ).

Also, join us at the forum parties. there is a good level of competition and good natured players. I've learned a lot from playing with and against these people.

[This message has been edited by Jehu (edited 12-09-98).]

Ex_Rabbit
Inactive
posted 12-10-98 10:29 AM ET (US)     8 / 17       
Jehu, sounds fun! I've never beaten Cy, but then again, I've only played him once. I'm the boomer, he's the rusher, guess who's going to win in a 1v1. lol.

I don't think phoe is such an awesome civ. They need something else. The only thing they have is the faster woodcutting bonus. That makes them effective for about 30 seconds in bronze on a normal map, maybe a bit longer on a water map, but that's about it. Even shang could beat up on phoe. better cats, even chariots/composites, even priests, has HA's. If the priests stink, i could see why eles would be good, but shang get great priests. phoe COULD try to convert back, but would u rather play first attack or counterattack?

The only thing that could make phoe better is the upgrades, particularly ballistics, coinage, and alchemy. Oh well. i'd still rather play shang in iron than phoe. watch my HA's run past your eles, which cost a load of food, get to your farmers, take them out, watch you try to make CA's to keep up w/ me, take out your CA's with my own, run HA's to take out the woodies. dead woodies = no advantage . Don't get me wrong. i used to love phoe. They were the first civ that i bronze w/ in under 15, my fave civ for quite a while cuz i never had to worry about wood. But now, I just can't play w/ them anymore.


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-10-98 12:45 PM ET (US)     9 / 17       
Rabbit, your bronzing time seems ok to me. When I play Assy, I normaly click on the bronze button in the low 13:00... The bronze time is not the only important factor in this game. Assy need LOTS OF WOOD once in bronze. If you can click bronze at 11:00 but if you find yourself without any wood once in bronze, how are you going to continue your quick development without any kind of interruption. Let me explain:

When I am in bronze, there are a couple of things I really like to get quickly. The number 1 priority is the wheel (75 wood). I also like to get the GOV center right away (200 wood) so I can get my second town center and villager boom (200 wood) with 2 TC instead of 1 (twice faster right?) You might want to get artisanship to cut wood faster and have a better range with your CAs (170 wood). You probably also have only 1 archery range once in bronze and want to build at least 2 more? (300 wood)... A really nice thing to have now that you're in bronze is to have an army right? Ok, lets say you want 6 CAs (420 wood)... That is pretty much the basic stuff you might wanna get in early bronze, so lets calculate the wood you need... 1365 wood required in early bronze for Assy... The only thing an earlier bronze time would have given you is the opportunity to harrash the opponent with 1-3 non-upgraded CAs (cav)... The time you take to go to his town may give him time to prepare, if he bronzed later than you... You might kill a few villies also. Now, with an average bronze clicking of 13:00, you must consider walling your city as often as you can, just to annoy these bronze rushers that comes in your city with bronze armies when you just entered bronze... Walling your city gives you an extra minute or two (at least) to get rid of these Cavs or CAs knocking at your walls... Obvioulsy, when the guy come knocking at your wall, he does not have stone throwers yet... It takes forever to destroy a tile of wall with archers. You never destroy a wall with cav, cuz a villager behing it is laughing at you while repairing...

Conclusion:
you had an average bronzing time but you'll have the stronger mid-bronze economy with your 2 TCs and your wood upgrades... your CAs will be really good with this +2 range also...

This is just to memonstrate that the bronze time is not everything. I do not pretend that this is the secret of AoE... I do not pretend anything apart "Bronze time is not everything"... There are some counter argument to this text and I am aware of it, but I demonstrated my point. Your bronze time is fine with Assy at 13:00

Phil

Concerning your ressource balancing problem, I believe with time and experience it will improve. BTW, play with stronger opponents, you'll improve much faster... by getting mopped!

[This message has been edited by Phil_The_Great (edited 12-10-98).]

Jehu
Inactive
posted 12-10-98 01:46 PM ET (US)     10 / 17       
Rabbit

I wont argue with you about how good horse archers are because I agree. My first civs were Assy and Hittite and as you would expect horse archers were a big part of my game. I have switched to Egypt and Phoeny because I wanted a change. I wouldn't bother chasing horse archers with elephants, I usually just send them on to the enemy town and start tearing stuff up. My Egyptian/Phoeny preists do convert back my wayward elephants but thats not all they are doing. Plus, I would wall in to protect myself from horse archer attacks if I could, but I realize not everyone does. I have had a lot of success with both civs recently and Iron age shang hasn't presented too much trouble yet.

If I thought I was going to be fighting an extended iron age war against Phoeny, I personally wouldn't chose Shang. They get no iron age government center upgrades which hurts their horse archers and siege weapons. Basically, Shang owns early bronze and early iron in the hands of good Shang players. After that I dont fear them much as a civ. That doesn't mean I don't fear the player using them though.


Ex_Akaval
Inactive
posted 12-27-98 11:39 PM ET (US)     11 / 17       
I am probably bellow avarage in Ex, and most play like newbies. Guess where it puts me. Thanks Rabbit.


PheNoL
Inactive
posted 12-28-98 03:57 PM ET (US)     12 / 17       
lol


PheNoL

Ender
Guest
posted 12-29-98 07:23 AM ET (US)     13 / 17       
Phoenician is a great civ, they have the only economic bonus that really helps the entire game. They get tool faster with more than any civ than shang and get all tool age units. They get bronze faster with more than any civ, and are about equal to shang here on the water maps and get all the bronze age units. In iron hey get scythe chariots, ballista towers, legions, centurions, cheap armored elephants, fully upgraded priests, best ships in game. Just take your pick of which advantage you wish to use and use it.


Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-29-98 10:51 PM ET (US)     14 / 17       
I just think its kinda funny how many people who beat me to bronze lately but can't seem to figure out what to do after . I guess everyone reads the "how to bronze fast" pages or something and managed without having that much AOE experience. Also, you have the people who do great in bronze but have no idea what to do in iron . I've found lately that if I can just stay in games long enough I manage to win(even if I'm getting my ass kicked early).

Perhaps their are some aspects of AOE that you can't pick up off a strategy page .


FanatiC KaBaN
Clubman
posted 12-29-98 11:03 PM ET (US)     15 / 17       
Ex clan players play like newbies? WoW, i did not know that.

Maybe we should start some clan wars now, if you are in a Newbie clan LoL.. why would you say that? I consider FanatiC to be expert ,


Ex_Akaval
Inactive
posted 01-01-99 12:21 PM ET (US)     16 / 17       
I never lost see to Phoe, when I Minoan. CT and jugs is a mislead, people foolishly build em and waste gold. Navy gets huge on island games and med, I say I build 200+ see units the whole game(if its a good game that is)which saves me about 8k of wood just for being Minoan now imagine how much gold you gonna dump in if gonna build CT or jugs. besides even if you beat Minoan navy, you still cant get the docks because they are guarded by cats or heavy cats.


Ex_Rabbit
Inactive
posted 01-12-99 03:36 AM ET (US)     17 / 17       
whew, i miss my school connection. it's been a while since i posted lol. anyways, jehu, you're right. i'd pick phoe in late bronze, but with shang, u'd be lucky to survive that far lol. akaval's right. most ex's play like newbies. sigh. bad recruiting can hurt. i'd like to think of myself at least as one step above newbie. it's so queer b/c at one point, i was bronzing in about 12 w/ assy (that's 12-12:30) and was rushing the crazy mess out of people, but now, no matter what i do, i bronze in about 14. 20 peons or 40, it's 14-14:30. about 15:30 w/ minoan powerup, but still, it's scary. of course, playing ror may have something to do with it. anyway, thanx everyone for your help!


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