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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Hell/Hill Country
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Topic Subject:Hell/Hill Country
Potejon
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 04:28 PM ET (US)         
Since I have seen more hell games lately on the zone and my usual 15 fast bronzes don't work at all for some reason, I need tips on how to play it on gig, and small map. Last small map was UGLY.

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Pote
In Ferro Veritas (Latin), "In the Sword is Truth"

AuthorReplies:
borgboy12
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 04:29 PM ET (US)     1 / 16       
all out tool war
Potejon
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 04:32 PM ET (US)     2 / 16       
I tried that on the small map but I tooled to late and there was towers everywhere. Pincussion, ugh!

But on Gig?

borgboy12
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 04:37 PM ET (US)     3 / 16       
For some reason on those maps my 15 min tool just barely keeps me alive for me to get a small tool army

On gig, I say stone wall in and then when you hit tool wall in again and again and again and tower the walls and your base and shoot for iron. Try that

FanatiC_Reeces
Inactive
posted 09-08-99 04:59 PM ET (US)     4 / 16       
The answer is not to play hell country maps . Well I notice that most newbies play Hill Country and Highland maps.
FanatiC_Reeces
Inactive
posted 09-08-99 05:01 PM ET (US)     5 / 16       
But if you have to know how to play, ask someone at GX AOE for another great strategy that they could write.
FanatiC_FataL
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 05:06 PM ET (US)     6 / 16       
My best bronze was on hill country map...

no reveal everything default.

Persian 13:15 24 villagers, basically just hunting, berries, and a few choppers.

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~/\~ FanatiC_FataL A member of the FanatiC Clan.
Irish Knight full of nobility. +--
members.xoom.com/Irish_Knight/index.htm


Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 05:26 PM ET (US)     7 / 16       
Usually faster times on maps are due to fishing boom and things like that. Without fish in Hell Counrty (except for the occasional fish in the stream) it may slow bronze times down. Idea for tool rush. My fastest Bronze (not counting Shang, of course) was about 13:30 or so with about 28 vill with Phoe. My Roman times are dropping but I can't do so well with Hittite (no econ bonuses.) The slower the bronze times, as a result of less fish, make it perfect for a tool rush, if you know how to do it right, which I am supprised at how few people do. Many at this forum know how, of course.

-Local_Yokel

Paralyticus
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 05:29 PM ET (US)     8 / 16       
Well, i'd say you need the fast Bronze more than ever!...

Small and Medium maps:

This is an all-out Tool war.
Tool time is more important than Bronze time and FINDING those extra 2 or 3 berries is of paramount importance.

But you should privilege any means of cutting the enemy's supply! Almost more important than getting your own...

I have also found that the old bowman is STILL THE peon killer! Nobody is ever prepared to 3-4 upgraded bowman (leather armor) popping up in the middle of their woodcutters and start a quick killing. I have yet to encounter the guy who has the slingers waiting....

Towers are a nuisance in Tool wars. I suggest that you have 3 slingers when you drive your 3-4 bowmen in. If they make that quick Tower, your bowmen attack goes down the drain! Here's the deal:
They make Tower? Your slingers kill it in no time. Then Bowmen continue killing.
They make axemen to kill your slingers? 4 armored bowmen can deal with the axemen, in defense of the slingers.

I oject to making clubmen and axemen in fish-less maps. Food is too precious in these dry-land maps, you need it for many things, especially Tooling and Bronzing!

Large and bigger maps.

Bronze times are all important. That and FINDING those extra 2 or 3 berries is of paramount importance. This time even more important, because you have to pump your CA and military buildings, some ST, etc., which means less wood if you farm! So, reaping the berries towars the center and eventually those in unexplored edges is very important. In these maps I often get away berry-picking and later farming in the center of the map, while war is raging in the periphery

While I fail because of speed in these maps, any fast bronzer is at ease here. Inland, Highland and Hill Country are the fast bronzer's paradise.

So, even if you bronze a little later, but have mustered the discovery and exploration of those "extra" berries, you will have a huge advantage.


Remember: ANY fast player can beat me - but most players, even good, will lose to me, if they happen not to be as fast as usual in that particular game.
This means that being fast is like being ahead most of the time - I have found fast players that do not attack fast - instead, they convert their speed into extra resources that they use to bolster their initial attack. I still think that you should attack as soon as you have the MINIMUM required to really kill something - like 2 or 3 CA....


[This message has been edited by Paralyticus (edited 09-08-99).]

FanatiC_Reeces
Inactive
posted 09-08-99 05:47 PM ET (US)     9 / 16       
quote:
Without fish in Hell Counrty (except for the occasional fish in the stream)
Are we talking about the same Hill Country or are you getting confused with Highlands?
Thinker42
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 11:18 PM ET (US)     10 / 16       
Since you need more vills on food and exploration and there will almost certainly be a tool battle the next best civ to shang is rome. The cheap buildings mean less vills on wood and they are a good tool power. Controlling the center of the map seems to be important in Hill Country.
Cherub Lobby
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 11:58 PM ET (US)     11 / 16       
Hill is popular and not just with newbies !

A lot of the top players like it cause you usually end up with a lot more warfare.

On smaller maps …as mentioned earlier here tool wars are inevitable so just be ready .. don’t even think about bronze.. just pump out tool troops.. use all of them too ! Stone/Paper/Scissors approach.. Axers beat Slingers & Buildings, Bowmen beat Scouts, Slingers beat bowmen and Scouts find vills ! All of course beat vills !

Slingers will probably end up being you mainstay though, so use all tool upgrades including the stone upgrade at the market !

On larger maps bronze becomes the main age of warfare and if you don’t have a good compie civ or (preferably) CA’s then you are in big trouble. With all the space to manoeuvre CA’s become very important.. bunches of 20 supported by sts will become you mainstay force. Someone Mentioned Rome as an important civ… I have personally shot down 6 fully upgraded broadies with 4 CA’s… then took out another 6 with same 4 1 minute later …with out losing a hit point. Just hit and run. Rome takes down buildings nicely but their troops are pincushions.

In iron and a large hill map will usually make it to iron.. HA’s, Scythes and Siege will be the most used units (as if they aren’t everywhere anyway). The thing is the game will probably not last long in iron as here the player who is in front will exaggerate his advantage (sometimes its hard to tell in Bronze). The gold hog will pump out HA’s, and Cats and systematically reduce the enemy to slag !

Economy… spread out quick and wall up strategic areas.. get used to farming… the standard late bronze technique is to chuck down a tc and 5-6 farms in a previously explored area with no resources nearby.. that way the farms may survive long enough. Some people like to wall up huge farm centres.. personally I would save this for woodies. Plonk down TC’s near gold too.. Unless the enemy has heavy troops he may raid these areas but is unlikely to stay to take out the TC and when he leaves you can just pop out new vills to grab some quick gold !

On small maps go the usual 20-24 vill tool depending on civ and start spot. Then proceed to tool wars. Make sure you mine stone as well (walls, towers and slingers all play a bigger role on Hill)

On larger maps you can probably afford to go 30-40 vills but make sure you spread out and be ready to hit the tool button.

Josh the Great
Clubman
posted 09-09-99 03:43 AM ET (US)     12 / 16       
I prefer water maps to hell country or highland. I decide to FB boom and then discover there's no where to build a dock. Bugger

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Josh the Great
sarmis_DarkRain

Joe Rockhead
Inactive
posted 09-09-99 08:53 AM ET (US)     13 / 16       
I love Hill Country and Highland. Now that the boat boom has been done to death I suspect these maps will continue to gain in popularity.

Priority #1 is scout!. Less food, more mines, more wallable areas, more usable area in general (with no water these maps play a size larger) all neccessitate early and extensive scouting.

As for Tool/Bronze times, they really needn't be any slower than Inland if the Bronze rush is what you're committed to do. The old Laksama <sp?> strat works fine on Hill/Highland. The problem is, what do you do once you've Bronzed and cranked a couple CA/Camels/Cav?

With general lack of food and the greater distance between food sites I find the typical Bronze rush impractical. A couple cav will kill a newbie, but what doesn't? A fast Tool and slow Bronze is wiser imho.

A player can only crank so many pricey Bronze Age units off hunter/gatherers in Hill Country. You can't peon boom and Bronze rush simultaneously here. Tool archers behind walls will beat on cav/camels; slingers will beat on the archers. I think the boomer in Tool beats the Bronze Rusher here easily.

Once the main production area is secured it's time to spread out. I like to switch my hunter/gatherers onto wood in Tool and have them wall in a separate area and put all new peons onto farms.

I don't see much point in forward building with this kind of strat. There's nothing fast about this kind of build-up. The key is to be able to develop the big econ that can pump units 6 at a time while your opponents are still trying to get their farms down.

Massed comps/CA and st can take the map by sections while peon builders wall it off and tower the resources. Spread out and keep up the boom.

I like Hittite on Hill. The best Hill tribes are going to have chariots and heavy siege as more area and more resources mean longer games and extensive fortifications. Gold dependant civs will run into problems over time. Coinage is also a crucial upgrade. Ball towers are the final component. Add to these things the Hittite bonus on Tool archers and they become prohibitive favorites imho.

[This message has been edited by Joe Rockhead (edited 09-09-99).]

Wicked_Spirit
Clubman
posted 09-09-99 10:35 AM ET (US)     14 / 16       
I play hill country all of the time. It is such a nice change from boat booms.

Most of the key points have already been covered in previous posts.

1. Explore, Explore, Explore. If you can find a second berry patch, some eles, or even a third berry patch, you can achieve 14 min bronzes easily. Exploring is critical. Period.

2. Wood. Remember this is not boom time so you do not need 15-20 choppers. 7-8 choppers are more than enough to give you the wood you need. More can be added as you enter bronze.

3. Get some gold for your bronze. An early cav or camel on someone who was not as fortunate to find secondary berries or eles can seriously slow them down. (And will wreck any clubbers or slingers they have made)

4. Gazelles are very much an option. I usually only go after them as a last resort, but a bunch of them together can provide a load of food in tight times.

5. Farming comes into play earlier. Figure out how much natural food you have available and start farming when you need to.

6. Spread out. The more area you have covered in hills, the better off you will be.

Anyone who played AoE in the early days should be able to revive some of their old skills and do just fine on a hills map. For those who have grown up with RoR and the boat boom, this is how you used to play before there were boat booms!!!

Oh yeah, there are loads of advanced players who play hills!

Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 09-09-99 10:47 AM ET (US)     15 / 16       
hi Pote those small maps are always UGLY I forget sometimes that the map is hill and my poor vills are looking everywhere for the water! In hill I usually get a farm upgrade first or second.
WarLust
Inactive
posted 09-10-99 05:15 PM ET (US)     16 / 16       
Playing on hill country maps is all about exploration. More devotion to exploration is needed to succeed on this type of map. Tool wars are very common, thus you need decent food and protection, which stems from proper scouting.

Hill country maps are fun and my preference nowadays. It takes a lot more skill to fight, boom, and defend on this map than any other.

Once you get a wood pit going, only use 3-4 vills to chop wood until you start to tool, then have another 4-6 vills join the original ones to gather more wood for farms and buildings in tool. You are not booming with boats, so use those other vills to get food. Food is not very abundant on this map. You have to actively search far and wide to get food, and a lot of times you have to settle for gazelle. If you find 3 berry patches in your area, you have an awesome starting position. If you have forest surrounding you, you are in great shape. This means you have to wall less, and you definately want to wall on this map.

I make anywhere from 24-30 vills when playing this map. Obviously, if I have more food, I make more vills. Having more initial villagers helps greatly on this map. Once you make bronze, drop a GC and multiple TC's and pump vills to maximize your economy.

-WarLust

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