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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Villagers:How many?
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Topic Subject:Villagers:How many?
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Thanos
Clubman
posted 12-07-98 01:42 PM ET (US)         
I was reading a post and this guy said he builds 20 palmy villagers before he goes tool. I think thats crazy. Then again I am not the best player. What do some of you experts do?

Maybe you could break it down like this.This is what I do. Feel free to point out my mistakes
I usually play phoe
Until Tool
12 Villagers 6 Wood 4 Berries 2 hunting/building. Start building some boats usually have 4 . I tool around 10-11 minute mark.

Until Bronze
14 Villagers 6 wood 2 berries 4 hunting building 2 stone. 10 boats
Bronze about 14-16 min mark.

Thanks


AuthorReplies:
NoSoup4U
Inactive
posted 12-10-98 09:40 AM ET (US)     26 / 31       
Sounds like a great tool rush, and an all out one at that. Sorry man, not much you can do agains that, especially if you haven't walled and your opponent is Shang.

May I recommend the No Shang game, or my favorite, Random Civ, so this won't always happen to you.

By the way, Roman tool rushes and defends agaisnt tool rushes very well with cheap towers and cheap buildings, give it a try. Roman axer rushes are great and tower his wood when you drive off the woodies. Towering docks on med is a great idea also.


blank1
Inactive
posted 12-10-98 09:49 AM ET (US)     27 / 31       
When I use Palmyran I usually aim to tool with 22-24 villagers, never less than 20 in any case, first of all I feel things like having even nearly set amounts of villagers per resource is a bad thing to think about, try just knowing that you want to make 22 villagers.. my last attempt I bronzed in late 14 with 25 palmyran villagers I think it was and I did not have a good spot

now.. 22 palmyran villagers is 1650 food (yikes) but hey you collect that food fast right? so here's a common scenario, you've got some good stragglers, 2 berry bushes within a not so far walk of town center, say there's 6 berries per bush .. so for 2 granaries in this situation you'll get 1800 food, that means you have 150 food towards the tool upgrade, you only need 350 more to hit the tool upgrade...

ok, I know math is annoying, but just know that 2 granaries and a storage pit can get you nearly enough food to advance to tool, so dont look at it like 5 villagers on wood, 5 on food or whatnot, however - try putting 6 or 7 palmyran villagers on your initial berry bush, one guy scouts for more berries or whatnot, and the rest cut straggler trees (the trees around the town center) until you have enough wood for a storage pit, pit the closest wood source and begin cutting until you have another 120 wood then STOP CUTTING WOOD *except for 1 or 2 villagers*, from that point you only need enough to continuously make houses for your 22 villagers, so at this point you should have 2 granaries and a storage pit, and almost all of your villagers collecting berries, now here's the problem with 22+ palmy villagers.. you're very likely to need more than 2 granaries (2 berry bushes), so as the *first* berry bush begins to run out, slowly take villagers from it over to the wood pit, meanwhile you'll need to find some sort of third food source, (gazzelle packs, elephants, more berries, shore fish).. now make sure you do not let your berry bush run dry and have say 10 berry foragers sitting there idle ready to go somewhere, know your third food source - and with the 120 more wood you collected with the villagers you slowly took off the berry collection, take a sizeable amount of villagers who were collecting the from the first berry bush and wood cutters and begin on the third food source, DO NOT get more wood than you need, and spend as little wood as you need, when you start your third food source you should have almost 0 wood left, at this point your 22+ villagers should all be collecting food and you'll have that 500 food rather quickly, almost as fast as you would if you were not palmyran for that amount of villagers, you have to place extra emphasis on good constant flow of food income with palmyran, not allowing your villagers to idle

after this you simply continue to follow this pattern, bringing in lots of food (if you run out of stuff or you are forced into farming, remember to try to get that +75 food production upgrade, its a big deal).. work on this mentality, know what you need and how to get it, after awhile it gets easy to get the best age upgrade times for a given spot, of course it takes good reaction time and lots of practice.

and of course if you can get something 2 elephants to a good close wood pit, that is a big bonus and there is your third food source, just remember pay close attention to not collecting more wood than you need for the 3+ food sources!.. follow through once you reach tool age, dont make more villagers, continue to get just enough wood to make the necesary tool buildings and to continue food income, palmyran's biggest problem is they require so many food sources, they are amazing with a great spot and quite horrible with a very bad spot (4 gazzelle and a berry bush in range for example).. of course you can always skillfully decide to not make so many villagers if your spot appears to be so bad, but its usually best to take advantage of what you've been given and what your civilization is capable of... and I suggest work on this way of playing/thinking with a normal civilization, I would say palmyran are a civilization more suitable for somewhat advanced players.

if you see me in quirinal some time, feel free to ask me to demonstrate this kind of way of playing, if i have time i wont mind doing it, i enjoy talking about ror stuff and teaching it but my time is limited.

sorry if this is too complicated
cya


Thanos
Clubman
posted 12-10-98 12:31 PM ET (US)     28 / 31       
Abraxas

As far as I am concerned the only way to complete with shang is shang. If I play 3 vs 3 game and one of the other players is playing shang. I will play shang and try to even it out. Even though I don't like them much because they are so unbalanced. Because of their fast start they pretty much dictate the game. Shang has very powerful SCs and gets most Iron age stuff, except Market and some Gov stuff. I wish they would patch then.
Make them have a negative trait.

The other day I played a Random game(I usually get the bad Civs) and It was Palmy(me),Palmy, Rome vs Shang, Assyrian, Choson. It wasn't even funny the Shang guy was on me so fast. Basically he kicked my butt. The only thing that saved me was I put lots of towers in my town. It was costing him too much to destroy it. We won the game. All I really did was slow down the Shang. I did get some revenge at the end when I walked 20 armored elephants into his town and razed it to the ground. Thats about the only other way to beat shang is in 3vs3 or 4vs4 games.


Ender
Guest
posted 12-11-98 06:55 AM ET (US)     29 / 31       
I think in a 3v3 with 1 enemy as shang you should tool rush the shang enemy every time. About 75%% of the people using shang like to tool rush or villager boom. If they are tool rushing they build their base forward so they have little defense before they can wall in. If they villager boom they build the base at home but they tool slower and bronze slower. Either way a good way to beat shang is tool rush them. Worse case scenario they waste their advantage killing your forward base.


Spam
Clubman
posted 12-11-98 09:17 AM ET (US)     30 / 31       
I'd just like to say that Blank1's post is spot on. It's a common mistake to build way too few vills with Palmy. Personally, I'd say that 24 vills before tool is a bit extreme, but sub-14 minute bronzes with 20 real vills and 3-5 boats are quite feasible, IMO. And a 20 vill Palmy economy brings in as much resources as a 28 vill non-Palmy economy, in my experience.

My 2 cents.

Spam


neilkaz
Clubman
posted 12-13-98 10:54 PM ET (US)     31 / 31       
Time to add my 2 cents worth to oneof my favorite topics. I have tried slower tool/bronze a few times this week vs my usual 20 real peon speed tool/bronze... and my results were dismal ! I was tooled or bronze rush everytime I boomed and tooled/bronze a few minute late. One time i was walled but he bronzed fast and blasted a hole one ST and pumped in more CA's than I can handle.. I also wasted many guys booming in 1v1 and 2v2 w/rushes. IMO be careful if you are slow to tool/bronze and defend ! But if you're all alone on a peninsula,, wall it and boom like mad !


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