You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
Moderated by Suppiluliuma, PhatFish, Fisk, EpiC_Anonymous, Epd999

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.22 replies
Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » The Choson
Bottom
Topic Subject:The Choson
Cordyceps
Naphal
(id: ArchDruid)
posted 09-07-99 10:48 PM ET (US)         
Alright, I don't play online much, but a lot of my friends in real life hate the Choson. They think they suck, etc.
BUT, when I play on my friend's LAN, I can whup him with Choson. I've had the game longer, so this may account for some of it, but what do you guys think of the Choson?
They get cheap infantry that is more powerful than anything but Eles and Hoplite lines. They can mass produce said powerful infantry, AND they get Logistics.

------------------
ArchDruid

AuthorReplies:
That_Guy
Inactive
posted 09-07-99 11:15 PM ET (US)     1 / 22       
I like choson, i used to play them all the time, there a very good dm civ. In RM there not too hot but i still belive in them
Asadrew
Inactive
posted 09-08-99 00:42 AM ET (US)     2 / 22       
THe only reason I think that flooding civs like Choson, Roman, and others work is because most games are set at around 200 pop limits. That allows u to make hundreds of legions and flood their entire town. If the pop was set at what it's supposed to be, 50, then Choson would be rather useless because u could proabaly make about 40 units with logistics. That is not a vary powerful army as u they can be killed very easily even with the extra hitpoints.
Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 01:24 AM ET (US)     3 / 22       
Are 40 LS really a trivial force when the most you can counter with is 20 something elses? I think if the 20 something elses are heleps, the LS are in trouble, but superunit upgrades are also rare at low pops and even 20 ballistas is a huge chunk of change, relatively speaking.

My experience with smaller pops is that the LS becomes a more viable entity, as their inexpensive nature and fast production makes them more desireable.

Keep your stick on the ice.

Johnny
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 03:13 AM ET (US)     4 / 22       
Let's get one thing straight, there is no "supposed to be" in this game. There r many variable settings that can be manipulated to fit the interests of many people. U might have an arguement for AOE, but if that is the case...I'd argue that u r "supposed to be" playing ROR . Either way, I don't think that 50 pop is at all worth playing myself, but if u want to I'm not going to call u a loser or anything else. It's your's to play, do with it as u like. That's my $0.02, I did with it what I wanted .

[This message has been edited by Johnny (edited 09-08-99).]

[This message has been edited by Johnny (edited 09-08-99).]

Josh the Great
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 05:47 AM ET (US)     5 / 22       
I like the choson for tool rushing. I've become quite proficient at it because the last 5 random civ games I've played, I've ended up with choson. - spooky

------------------
Josh the Great
sarmis_DarkRain

Joe Rockhead
Inactive
posted 09-08-99 07:45 AM ET (US)     6 / 22       
Cavalry and imps in Bronze??? No bonus to the short/broardswords so forget those guys.

All the bad RM civs have great Irons but what difference does that make?

To win with Choson in RM defaults you just have to be that much better than your opponents.

I think Choson are right there with Carthage and Greece as the worst RM civs.

joecho
Clubman
posted 09-08-99 01:21 PM ET (US)     7 / 22       
Yeah, Choson is kinda weak in RM... but so what if you lose, they are sure fun to play. Choson has become my pet bad civ. The other day in Q, I was in a 'Worst Civs Only' game. Only Greek, Carth, Choson and Persia were allowed, w/ no repeats. I got Choson. Really fun game. In a not so restrictive setting, Choson really blows, but so what, still fun to play. In the terrible bz, I take a group of vills w/ architecture, and tower the enemy's town as much as possible. If the enemy's town is impossible to infiltrate, you can at least support the fighting line w/ the towers. I also try to tower every single resource spot that I can get to. Those towers r a serious pain to the archers, and even STs. Coupled with cheap priests, I think Cho can survive bz, and even make a decent contribution to the team effort. Then while ironing, i pump out broads, ready to become long swords. Rax units pump out something like 2x faster than say, scythes. The next upgrade I try to get is btower, then full priests. If I'm up against another flooding civ (Egy), I may consider helos. I also build a few HAs, for mostly scouting and quick raiding purposes. Another point, is that I almost always try to do at least a semblance of a tool rush w/ Cho. I mean, hey, the axemen (and the infantry upgrades) and towers, you have to eventually upgrade them anyway. And Cho towers r very nice in tool. The other day, I had my 1st real wonder win using Cho. Fun fun fun.

-joecho

[This message has been edited by joecho (edited 09-08-99).]

eug1
Inactive
posted 09-08-99 04:47 PM ET (US)     8 / 22       
I actually kind of like Choson. I never really choose them that often because I just never happen to think of them but I do not feel slighted if I get them in a random civ game. I know everyone says they suck but I have had nothing but good experiences with them. I probably have more than double win-loss ratio when playing Choson. (and I am not that great of a player at all... )
As for the low pop games...I wholeheartedly suppport them! Probably my favorite pop game is 100, maybe 125. I absolutely hate pop 200 games. I really never see a point to that many units and the lag that it causes just sucks. But then again maybe I like the lower pops because I can just never seem to remember to build more than 35-40 vills (55 on a good day)

------------------
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.
Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
APC_eug1 and I am

That_Guy
Inactive
posted 09-08-99 06:30 PM ET (US)     9 / 22       
why are you guys always talkin **** about my fav civs?, choson, greek, carthage, persia. c'mon just give em a break im tired of you guys alwasy diss'in em, and i really dont want to hear any response to why they suck (cause ive heard it before and i know you guys will start off a post like that...)
Joe Rockhead
Inactive
posted 09-09-99 09:23 AM ET (US)     10 / 22       
"...and i really dont want to hear any response to why they suck (cause ive heard it before and i know you guys will start off a post like that...) "

Well then, let's talk about something completely different then. I'll give you a topic. Discuss amoungst yourselves.

Why do tribes with no Bronze Age archers really, really suck?

Because tribes with CA and comps bust their Bronze Age arses. And please don't tell me about impies.

Persia does not suck! At least Carthage gets the counters (slingers and camels). But Greek and Cho get only cav and slingers! (Rax men? Hoppers? Priests? With all those CA around???)

You got to bring more than to the Bronze Age if you want to survive. Pet civs aside, that sucking sound you hear is Cho!

[This message has been edited by Joe Rockhead (edited 09-09-99).]

joecho
Clubman
posted 09-09-99 03:33 PM ET (US)     11 / 22       
Choson sure is a lousy civ... but my ancestors demand that I play this civ...

I know others do, but I don't build much rax units in bz. No point, since as so often mentioned, CAs and compies do rule bz. I'm not good enough to do a fast broad rush, so I just build mostly towers and STs, and some priests. Choson bz STs are as good as any other, except for Hitt/Sumer/Mace, obviously. And since I am not producing any chariots/CAs in bz, I have plenty of wood to spare for the STs (and WGs too). And Choson towers can hit any unit in bz (actually not sure about Hitt WGs). No, these factors certainly don't mean that Choson has a domineering bz, but they are there. Sometimes, when the CAs are really rampant (which tends to be often), I don't build a single priest in bz. I may produce some imps and broads, but only general support. And those archeries can produce HAs in iron. I don't use imps and broads for bz offense though. The towers fill in that role. Hah! Choson bz offense. What a laugh. Sorry, ancestor dudes. My goal in bz basically is to keep the enemy occupied w/ the towers, and to support my allies w/ the towers & priests, and goto iron. I also farm early, around mid-bz, 'cause I will be using lots of it in iron, and I have the wood to spare.

Persia... oooh how I hate this civ. Ok, they have compies. They hunt like mad. I know that they are better than Choson, Greek and Carth. But I can't stand playing this forever tool age econ civ. Hello, you are in the iron age, and these dorky Persians have still yet to discover the wheel. Geeez.... Now, Mace, I don't mind. They are becoming another one of my pet civs...

That_Guy
Inactive
posted 09-09-99 06:09 PM ET (US)     12 / 22       
ok so you turned my question around so you could say why they suck... but what i want to know is why are you guys dissing them?

"You got to bring more than to the Bronze Age if you want to survive. Pet civs aside, that sucking sound you hear is Cho!" theres one example....

"Choson sure is a lousy civ" theres another...

just a couple of examples of what im talking about

choson isnt a lousy civ, its good in dm, but not in rm, now even tho i like to play them in rm and greek in rm too even aginst real players that are skilled at aoe.. they still arn't lousy at every setting in RoR.. thats why i asked why are you dissing my civs... (and i know this is probably unclear but ill try to edit when i have the time and make myself more clear or clearer... or whatever that is)

(and btw if anybody who read my previous post i was joking a tad bit... but not on my question..)

joecho
Clubman
posted 09-09-99 07:36 PM ET (US)     13 / 22       
That_Guy,
Hey, I'm not 'dissing' Choson. It should be pretty clear from my previous posts that I enjoy Choson quite a bit. We're just stating the matter of facts. A good Choson loss can be more respectable than a standard CA civ win.

And yes, my last name really is "Cho". I have family tree documents that go back into the Koryu dynasty. I have names of Choson military generals in the tree. I'm sure they would have a fit if they saw how ES has interpreted them.

-joecho

[This message has been edited by joecho (edited 09-09-99).]

That_Guy
Inactive
posted 09-09-99 09:02 PM ET (US)     14 / 22       
oh whatever im not in the mood to make these stupid **** **** posts...

ill resign that damn question seeing as how noone answer'ed it right anyway...

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 09-10-99 03:58 PM ET (US)     15 / 22       
The_Guy: Choson isn't a Top tier civ, hell its not even a middle tier civ, but their alright if used properly.
That_Guy
Inactive
posted 09-10-99 06:35 PM ET (US)     16 / 22       
to Elijeh: its that_guy not the_guy and duh i know htat but you still didnt answer the damn question...
Elijeh
Clubman
posted 09-11-99 01:31 PM ET (US)     17 / 22       
Why choson "sucks":
1. foremost and most important: No Economic bonus.
2. The things that save Egypt, Hittite and macedonian: Strong bronze age miltary bonuses.
3. Small, restricted technology tree.(No iron age armor upgrades, weak stable due to no nobility, only 1 iron age gov't center upgrade, no iron age PA upgrades, No viable siege weapons, and fairly weak navy(I'd rather have FGs+WGs than Remes straight).
4. Gold dependent.

Those four are the critera to judge civs via.

Their ranked and pointed...I'll explain later.

Sarius
Clubman
posted 09-11-99 06:02 PM ET (US)     18 / 22       
Some Civs that do not get archers in bronze do not suck. Lets take Roman for exaple. I would like to see hittite get into their walled/towered base wwith broads and chariots on the outside....It wont happen unless the hittite irons, but the roman will probally bronze faster due to their cheaper buildings and generally defending armys dont lose as much as attacking armies. So we come to the situation of a weak civ vs a strong roman. ANd once roman irons it generally over for the other civ unless your playing a greek or minoan. Its very hard to take out those berserk legions or even broadswordsmen...and pluss backed up with the cat/bal or hcat/helo combo. And with the wood you save from your buildings, you can be spending it on your army or navy...
That_Guy
Inactive
posted 09-11-99 06:28 PM ET (US)     19 / 22       
Elijeh: thats not the question i asked..... thats what i asked not to be used as an answer becuase one: its not an answer and two: i've heard all that crap before....
BenAtLarge
Inactive
posted 09-11-99 08:57 PM ET (US)     20 / 22       
That_Guy, has it occured to you that maybe Elijeh or the others that are posting to this thread are responding to ArchDruid's post or someone else's post, and not your post?

Sarius, it might be hard to get into your Roman town in bronze, but the Hittite CA will just run to your ally's town and smash it. Then the game will go from a 3v3 to a 3v2 and it doesn't matter what units you field, you're going to lose in a 3v1 Or the Hitt will just go Iron and smash Roman siege with the bonus Hitt siege and scythes with archers, phalanxes, or hitt scythes.

[This message has been edited by BenAtLarge (edited 09-11-99).]

[This message has been edited by BenAtLarge (edited 09-12-99).]

That_Guy
Inactive
posted 09-11-99 09:35 PM ET (US)     21 / 22       
benatlarge: no, and heres why

"The_Guy: Choson isn't a Top tier civ, hell its not even a middle tier civ, but their alright if used properly."

his first post on this thread, he clearly was talking to me(even though he got my name wrong)

then i responded to him with

"to Elijeh: its that_guy not the_guy and duh i know htat but you still didnt answer the damn question... "

then he posted

"Why choson "sucks":
1. foremost and most important: No Economic bonus.
2. The things that save Egypt, Hittite and macedonian: Strong bronze age miltary bonuses.
3. Small, restricted technology tree.(No iron age armor upgrades, weak stable due to no nobility, only 1 iron age gov't center upgrade, no iron age PA upgrades, No viable siege weapons, and fairly weak navy(I'd rather have FGs+WGs than Remes straight).
4. Gold dependent.
Those four are the critera to judge civs via.

Their ranked and pointed...I'll explain later." then i posted my last message.....

Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 09-12-99 11:24 AM ET (US)     22 / 22       
Rome deal with Hittite Hcats and archers? no sweat. Martyrdom priests take care of Hcats. Will I spend only 125 gold and a double hp hittite Hcat? Heck yah. Hittite Scythes and Roman Scythes I believe both have all the upgrades so it that field it is really any man's game. Same with Cents. Hoards of Roman Legions, which I hardly ever use with Rome for some reason, beat hoards of Hittite Ha because for the cost of one HA, a player can get about 3 (off the top of my head) Legions. Using the computer's shoot-backup-shoot method in real life is suicidal because it would be easier to stand still and concentrate fire upon one unit at a time. At 3-1 however, it isn't that effective.
Dual siege is more effective than lone Hcats but I've played several matches of Rome dSiege vs Hittite Hcats and Rome wins about half the time and Hittite wins about half the time so in that field it is hard to call a winner.

I dont wnat to start a "which civ is best" debate because like always, it is map and player dependant. Hittite has the best Iron in the game but putting a dent in Rome's Iron with it is problamatic. The only thing I hate is all 3 opponants picking hittite or any other same civ. That's a fun game

-Local_Yokel

NEVER USE SWORDSMEN IN ROMAN BRONZE!!! CHARIOT/ST ALL THE WAY!!!!

You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires Heaven | HeavenGames