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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Phonecian-Minoan Alliance
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Topic Subject:Phonecian-Minoan Alliance
Abraxas
Inactive
posted 12-06-98 04:27 AM ET (US)         
I would like to find a handful of players who like Minoa and Phoenecia and who would be interested in working together on team strategies. Perhaps we can do a small clan or something if it works out. The obvious strat has to do with wood cutting bonuses and cheap boats, what a combo. Has anyone thought about this particular team make up in depth?
Failing any interest in this I would appreciate any good Minoan players letting me watch them play sometime, I'm having trouble coping with early rushes.
Although rather inconsistent, I am capable of 14 min bronzes and 20 min irons, though I rarely try for that. I've been trying the pit first and even dock first strats discussed elsewhere on this forum and while they work great for bronzing and even ironing, man do I sweat while the flow of villagers interrupts and my tool times lag and lag and lag. The only thing I can think of is to start spreading out towards your ally with the woodcutters from minute one, hehehe, walk before they make me run...


Abraxas

p.s. In case of a small clan, I'm willing to host a web page and do all or most of the work. Although I like Minoa, I would love to play the feeder Phoeny to one or 2 teammates from time to time.

[This message has been edited by Abraxas (edited 12-06-98).]

AuthorReplies:
Mr_Potejon
Inactive
posted 12-06-98 10:59 AM ET (US)     1 / 18       
Hi, I would like to try that, I play both min and phoe. My bronze is slow, like 15-16 depends on lag and speed.
I am already in the FC clan but would like to try some teamstrats.
Minoan compies rule!!!!!!
Zone name. _Mr_Potejon or Mr_Potejon_FC, the ICQ us in the signature.


Mr_Potejon POTE!!!!
members.xoom.com/justgreg/
ICQ: 19922746

Lysimachus
Clubman
posted 12-06-98 11:08 AM ET (US)     2 / 18       
I'm more for the Mionoan-Yamato alliance, cuz I need good cavalry to back up my compies against catapults.

what do you think?


Ender
Guest
posted 12-06-98 11:52 AM ET (US)     3 / 18       
Try minoan- palmy, plamy cuts wood almost as fast as phoenician and they get tribute. Add in the fast camels to help out the composite bowmen.


Abraxas
Inactive
posted 12-06-98 02:49 PM ET (US)     4 / 18       
Thanks for responding guys:
Potejon-Well we don't need to do a clan, we can just try it out and see how it goes. I was thinking clan IF it works well, the advantage of clans of course is that you know your partner(s), what to expect and I assume, better communication. If you are in a clan already, don't you guys practice team strats together? I would think that's the whole point.
Lysimachus-Well, I've never had trouble protecting my cats in iron with Minoa, they do get cav and camels and can you say h-e-l-e-p-o-l-i-s? As for protecting the compies, as much as I love them, by the time cats enter the scene, they are only good in 2 instances, base defense(but hele is better) and transported landing parties. I still use them way too much, just 'cause I love them, but I shouldn't.
Ender-Now the one part I'm not sure about in this is the tribute expense part, which would be solved with Palmy, I must confess, I have not played them even once, not even in practice, as the villager penalty scares me.
The basic strat I was thinking of was that Phoney also gets a bonus in cheap eles, so Phoney tributes wood early and Minoa owns the sea, therefore they both can fish the map clean and no one else can, they can also trade for gold with impunity. Then the roles switch, and Minoas cheap fishing fleet tribute food for those eles. If a sea challenge evolves in late game, then Phoney has those awesome Jugs.
Well, this is all half baked and I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about, just desperately trying to avoid becomming another Shang player. Thanks,


Abraxas

Lysimachus
Clubman
posted 12-06-98 03:06 PM ET (US)     5 / 18       
Abraxes, I never said I can't defend my comps, I always use cav and cats to defend my comps. I was just simply saying that I would rather be allied to the Yamato for even a more benefit against cats.

Minoan are even better now with camel riders. If my comps get attacked with horse archers, I'll have my camels to cut them down.

ICQ name and #: Lysimachus,18342386


Lysimachus
Clubman
posted 12-06-98 03:20 PM ET (US)     6 / 18       
I used to be el tigre, but i changed it because Lysimachus is my zone name and i wasn't thinking when registered as el tigre.
It's been a while since I've been here, but I'm in support of Ninevah and his Minoan civ with their compies. My three top civs (which are equal, and none better than the other in my eyes for RoR) are: Minoan, Sumerian, Macedonian. I can bronze in 14min. My civs go by three's. The civs in each row are equal. My favorites are from best to worst here, starting from number 1. You are free to ask me why I arrange them accordingly. Here they are:

From best to worst:

1: Minoan, Sumerian, Macedonian

2: Hittite, Yamato, Roman

3: Phoenician, Assyrian, Carthaganian

4: Shang, Greek, Palmyrian

5: Egyptian, Persian

6: Babylonian, Choson

Remember, the civs are equal in each row!



neilkaz
Clubman
posted 12-06-98 11:36 PM ET (US)     7 / 18       
I'd be more than happy to ! I play Phoe, or Minoan alot and we could make the game NO SHANG if you wish. Find me on the zone as neilkaz. I can bronze or iron fast as we wish or start w/with boat boom etc. Phoe and Min go well together IMO Phoe has great everything but siege and Mino has great siege, but no 'phants, Scythe, and rotten towers, priests. .. I had an absolute ball today as Phoe in a 3v3 ripping up a Hittite with a huge ballista tower rush supported by loads of scythe and priests and some converted phants(I'd had 113 on a 100 pop limit.) Once the Hitt's 2nd cat/phant charge died to his own converted phants and my scythes, he had no defence to the towers all over his workshop center and the rest of his camp. .. Think about Phoe's priests/towers,scythe mixed w/Minoa's siege.
Funny thing is Hittite has all these, except priests, but it is hard to super unit everything as a single race,and Phoe/Minoa can bronze/iron faster due to wood/boats.
- neilkaz -


Mr_Potejon
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 01:41 AM ET (US)     8 / 18       
Nope we do not train team strats, but I hope to see you on the zone, since I play often with min and phoe, hate yams by the way. To boring.


Mr_Potejon POTE!!!!
members.xoom.com/justgreg/
ICQ: 19922746

Teefax
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 02:23 AM ET (US)     9 / 18       
Abraxas, I love to play both Minoa and Phoenecia. I will look out for you on the zone. I am afraid I will not be a great help though because I am more or less a beginner and just starting to explore the multiplayer world. If that doesn't matter to you too much I would be more than happy to team up with you.

Teefax


Abraxas
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 04:34 AM ET (US)     10 / 18       
Hi guys:
Ok great, we got 3-4 guys interested in this.
Lets start out by just getting together and trying some combinations. 2 phonie, 1 minoan
or 1 and 1 or we can throw an extra civ in there to if someone wants to play that. Enders' got me thinking about Palmy and I practiced with them and got a 15 min bronze first try, whoa! So maybe we can throw them into the mix, I dont know. I don't want to exclude Shang, the whole point is to BEAT Shang, so we practice against them. The "bad guys" team will use Shang.

Teefax I'd love to have you. I don't care about whos good, just care about who wants to BE good and is willing to practice and actually stop and think and discuss and develop. I'm not very good myself, but I've always been very good at organizing winning teams in games and in real life, so I'm hoping I can do that with this game.

So Neilkaz, Mr_Potejon, Teefax and Lysimachus and anyone else who wants to try this Phonie, Minoa and maybe Palmy combo and develop it into a good team and maybe learn something, let me know what times you can play and we'll set up a schedule of what days, what time, what room, etc.

I think this will also teach us how to be better teammates in general; I just played a game, my partner was decent and we won, but he never said one word the whole game. I asked if he needed help...silence, asked if he wanted to do a joint attack..silence. Well I think you are at a great disadvantage when you play with teammates you don't know and who won't communicate.

Leave a post here and/or my e-mail is on this post and my ICQ is 11735612. Anyone from this forum is welcome to contact me for any reason using the above, you all seem like a great bunch.


Abraxas

Ender
Guest
posted 12-07-98 07:54 AM ET (US)     11 / 18       
Palmyran villagers do everything faster than others. This includes cutting wood which they cut almost as fast as phoenician. They also get free tribute, so if you want to take the sea early you aren't wasting 25% of the resources. They also get twice as much from trade so late in iron you can have him trade for a ton of extra gold. Biggest problem is they suck early in the game so if they get rushed it could be a problem.


Jehu
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 09:34 AM ET (US)     12 / 18       
Hi Abraxas

I appreciate thought provoking posts. I like Phoeny and would be interested but I probably don't have the time to dedicate to such an endeavor right now. I wanted to respond and lend moral support at the very least. I look forward to you posting your findings.

Good luck
Jehu


Mr_Potejon
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 11:31 AM ET (US)     13 / 18       
Let us see in weekends but also in weeks but not this since I have some exams.
Time: about from 2-4pm CST, okay?
what is your Zone names??
Someone posts at one name but plays as another one.


Mr_Potejon POTE!!!!
members.xoom.com/justgreg/
ICQ: 19922746

Abraxas
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 04:34 PM ET (US)     14 / 18       
First of all, thanks Ender, Jehu and Laelius for the responses, it means a lot to have feedback.
After some thought I think I've discounted Palmy. The objective of this endeavour is to be able to play non-Shang civs vs teams who utilize Shang. Specifically it's for us Minoa/Phoenecia fans to be able to compete.
A good Shang player will definitely rush the Palmy if the Palmy is one of the outside civs and he will probably rush or start exerting military pressure on whomever is in that spot. Therefore Ender, your caveat that if they get rushed "it could be a problem" is the reason Palmys excellent feeder, trading and camel support qualities must be forsaken, they will never come into play.
Last night I read Nineveh's Minoan guide, and Mr. Minoa himself says you have to be crazy to try to play them against Shang and/or ANY fast civ. I'm talking teams here though, not 1 vs 1, also this is RoR and huge or gig Med maps I think ease the situation. But not enough. Without Phonie, Minoa still can't compete.
Why Phoenicia?
quote:
Well Shang definately rules, especially in the rated rooms. But I am kind of stuborn and disapointed they did not ballance Shang better so I protest by never playing Shang if I have a choice. I play the second best in my opinion Phoney. And so far I am 7 and 4 aggainst shangs. So you can play other than Shang and still win, on water maps I think Minoan has a pretty good chance unless you are playing aggainst a Shang expert. Good luck! Make sure to get a good partner though if you play team games.
ÕLaeliusÖ

This is my sense as well. Most people who like Minoa, like Phoenicia as well so it should not be hard to get people to rotate playing either. Finally, I think the two compliment each other well as neilkaz points out.

My hypothesis here is that if the Phoeny/Minoa team can survive the early pressure in good shape, they can win. That the later it gets into the bronze the more the advantage goes to them and in iron its no contest and Minoa/Phoenecia win.

Sorry about the long post, I'm working on a web page to post team strategies and tactics.
Once again thanks for helping with this attempt to neutralize (neuter? ) Shang.


Abraxas

[This message has been edited by Abraxas (edited 12-07-98).]

[This message has been edited by Abraxas (edited 12-07-98).]

neilkaz
Clubman
posted 12-07-98 06:23 PM ET (US)     15 / 18       
Good put me on your friends list! Find me most eves Chicago time on the zone in Quirinal or Esqinine. I don't and won't play in the rated rooms until the zone wakes up and makes some very major changes. - neilkaz -


Nineveh
Inactive
posted 12-07-98 07:08 PM ET (US)     16 / 18       
Count me in on this, too. The odds of me actually being online long enough to play RoR are really bad, but if I am my zone name is ZippyF1 and also (I use this for messing around) Compy_Disciple.

Seems like Phonny and Minoa are so alike that they would have the same weaknesses, but I guess not.

Lets see: Phony gets WE and AE, SC and priests, Btowers, all boats, CA.

Minoan gets: Heles, HCats, Kickin Comps, all CHEAP boats.

PLaying 2Shang v Phony/Minoa on an island map sounds like serious trouble. Sure you can get one guy but with cheap boats you might have 20 Phonny Triremes up your *** by 21 minutes. And then he tribs the Minoan back into it . Or vice versa--thats why it would be cooler and more diverse than Shang. Not by a lot though...that says a lot about Shang, hmm?


-Nineveh, "Minister for Compy Equality"
ICQ 16407576

Thanos
Clubman
posted 12-08-98 12:50 PM ET (US)     17 / 18       
Ya I am interested. I play phoeny a lot.
Maybe you could set a meeting in one of the rooms in the zone.


Abraxas
Inactive
posted 12-08-98 06:54 PM ET (US)     18 / 18       
Hi guys: Ok, all of you interested in this, I'm working on it. Its gonna take a few days. I've been working on a web page (part of my motivation for this is to upgrade my html skills from stone to tool) for the strategies and also thinking and organizing the first one. Yesterday I finally had to take a break from it and just went into the zone and played every wacky game I could find and every civ I could think of... I sucked most of the night, but had fun, even played DM which normally I think is lame.
One interesting note. I played Macedonians one game and while I completely butchered the economy part (now I know why its been dubbed Hell Country) I was amazed at what a hoplite/compi can do, even against iron age units!

Anyway, I'll post something about the Phonie/Minoa thing soon and you can all help me find the flaws in it and then we can go practice once it is reasonably developed.


Abraxas

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