You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
Moderated by Suppiluliuma, PhatFish, Fisk, EpiC_Anonymous, Epd999

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.22 replies
Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » The most powerful civ?!
Bottom
Topic Subject:The most powerful civ?!
Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 03:39 PM ET (US)         
Boy am I going to get it for this post. The most powerful civ? Carthaginian! Notice I did not say fastest, best, easiest to play, etc. I am talking about pure power, when resources are no object. The best 1-2-3 punch of all. AE in front with EA right behind and helepolis behind that. The extra hit points the eles have and those fully upgraded heles take down anything. (Ok, I know, no one will ever last long enough to get all the upgrades and build a decent size army, but it would be a fun battle.) Flame away.
AuthorReplies:
joecho
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 04:08 PM ET (US)     1 / 22       
Hehe... allow me to be the 1st.

That combo can take down anything, with the notable exceptions of priests and cat/hcat. Add some ha/hha and some helos of their own, and whatdayagonnado.

As for pure power, the traditional cat/hcat + ha/hha are better. As well as dual siege, and my personal current fav: roman scythe/helo.

-joecho

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 04:18 PM ET (US)     2 / 22       
Hah! My Mace Priest/double siege combo can smoke anything.

Seriously, though, it is really only especially susceptible to priest/Hcat combos, or HHA raiders.

[Argh! joecho beat me to the punch. I am going to have to learn how to just post some drivel as a placeholder and go back and edit in some intelligent commentary. Does anyone know how to make a short, meaningless, bandwidth-wasting reply? ]

Keep your stick on the ice.

[This message has been edited by Thorfinn (edited 08-30-99).]

Radagastt
Inactive
posted 08-30-99 04:57 PM ET (US)     3 / 22       
4 words: Fully upgraded Dual Siege (minoa, roman, greek (think thats all) will defeat that easily. just put hcats infront of hele's, the Hcats kill the carth heles and EA, while my hele's kill the AE and EA.

Dio

Josh the Great
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 05:01 PM ET (US)     4 / 22       
In my opinion, the strongest civ is Hittite. HCats with lots of hp, stronger horse archers and you can throw in eles if you need to. Also, in bronze, the hittite CA will wipe the floor with a lot of players in an early bronze rush. Just my thoughts - Josh
Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 05:07 PM ET (US)     5 / 22       
Ok I'll give in on egy priests but not on the hha. They will die so fast you will just be left with a pile of dogfood. Enough hcats will cause problems but plain cats will die too. You do have to keep the heles back a little until the AE gets in close. We're talking 750hp eles. I agree SC and heles are good too but try that ele-hele combo. (What am I saying, never make it to iron)

[This message has been edited by Thinker42 (edited 08-30-99).]

Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 07:32 PM ET (US)     6 / 22       
There is no "strongest" civ. It is all dependant on the map and the players. I love hittite but with no slingers in tool or econ bonuses a simple tool rush, done correctly of course, all most always eliminates a hittite or similar civ.

However, on non-water maps (hell country, cont, inlnd etc.) Shang is God. Nobody can do anything faster than a Shanger who knows what he/she is doing.

BTW, I just recently got my Shang bronze down to 10:45 with 28-30 vills. Probably just a fluke but it was cool beating stone age boomers with hoards of camels within the 13 min mark!!

Nobody get bitchy, there is always room to beat anything, some are just more difficult than others

-Local_Yokel

AxemanJim
Inactive
posted 08-30-99 07:38 PM ET (US)     7 / 22       
I disagree with Radagastt about using a bunch of seige instead of ele's. It seems to me I've beat a bigger force of opposing siege a few times with elephants coming at them and my seige behind the ele's. The enemy always seems to aim at the charging elephants leaving my siege unmolested and free to shoot. After the battle you can heal your wounded elephants with a priest too. I used to like Carthaginian - in fact I sounded just like you! I switched to Hittite though because when you run out of gold (like I always seem to) - then what? With Carthaginian you are out of luck but with Hittie you get the scythe chariot. Just make sure you save 800 gold for the scythe upgrade. Also, with Hittie you get an archery bonus to protect you better in Bronze. I do agree though, unless you face somebody who is good with preists (which Im not at all) - the combo of elephants and any kind of siege is unstoppable. If your opponent goes preist crazy on you then go nuts on CAs.
joecho
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 08:18 PM ET (US)     8 / 22       
the prob w/ using phants and siege is that a couple of converted phants, and your siege is a mess. thats the inherent weakness w/ the carth 'power combo'. 750 hp? how about 750 hp converted phants? you actually don't need to be good w/ priests. phants are the easiest thing to convert. hittite priests can do it. your only chance is bringing HAs to kill the priests. but since the enemy will have cats to crush your helos, your HAs will also die. and what about the mentioned dual siege? there is absolutely nothing that carth can do against that. i've heard and am sure that carth is a powerhouse in dm, but in rm, c'mon.
Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 09:43 PM ET (US)     9 / 22       
I already said yes egypt priests could stop it but because of the AE I don't think any other civ priests could do the convert soon enough. Never try this with just AE and heles. I guess it just depends on how good you can micromanage the three forces against how good the opponent can micromange the priests. It would take a lot of hcats to get enough shots over the heads of the eles to take out the heles. Yes, if you don't have a ton of gold you can never make it work so the argument is just to argue. The reason I even started this was because the other night I got carth for the first time in random civ. It was a 4v4 but people just kept dropping and getting defeated. My town was taken out but I ran to a second base with my one remaining partner who was shang. We were against Yammy and choson and the choson was the one who had chased me out of my town. I had lots of gold, wood, and food so I made 10 camels and 20 heles. Yammy was closest and kept sending hcavs in. I took out after him with the camels in the front. In a matter of minutes I had destroyed 30 or more hcavs and most of his town. Lost 6 camels and no heles.
We did go on to win. I like Carthage.
king_highlander
Inactive
posted 08-31-99 01:14 AM ET (US)     10 / 22       
Thinker, I will give you credit on this one. You spotted a civ strength that takes practice, but when used right is very tough to beat.

However, you are not the first. Carthag is considered a very strong dm civ due to these strengths. You can get all the upgrades due to the dm and combo of heles, eles, and cents is very tough. (I noticed you left out their cent strength) I have never run into a dmer using the EA part of your idea, just the 3 I mentioned. I wouldn't have found out about it except I did a random civ dm once and loved carthag.

Weaknesses: quick weapons to take out priests, gold dependency, lack of weapon to battle hittite heavy seige, AE combo with few priests mixed in

Conjecture: good dm player could beat egyptian who would be attacking with scythes and priests b/c cents-eles slaughter scythes and heles could get the priests. IT WOULD BE VERY TOUGH AS THE EGYPTIAN COULD MAKE SCYTHES ALL DAY, CONVERT YOUR SLOW ARMY, AND IS NOT GOLD DEPENDENT

king_highlander
Inactive
posted 08-31-99 01:14 AM ET (US)     11 / 22       
Thinker, I will give you credit on this one. You spotted a civ strength that takes practice, but when used right is very tough to beat.

However, you are not the first. Carthag is considered a very strong dm civ due to these strengths. You can get all the upgrades due to the dm and combo of heles, eles, and cents is very tough. (I noticed you left out their cent strength) I have never run into a dmer using the EA part of your idea, just the 3 I mentioned. I wouldn't have found out about it except I did a random civ dm once and loved carthag.

Weaknesses: quick weapons to take out priests, gold dependency, lack of weapon to battle hittite heavy seige, AE combo with few priests mixed in

Conjecture: good dm player could beat egyptian who would be attacking with scythes and priests b/c cents-eles slaughter scythes and heles could get the priests. IT WOULD BE VERY TOUGH AS THE EGYPTIAN COULD MAKE SCYTHES ALL DAY, CONVERT YOUR SLOW ARMY, AND IS NOT GOLD DEPENDENT

------------------
DaRq_HiGhLaNdEr

in the end...there can be only one

Scarab
Clubman
posted 08-31-99 02:51 AM ET (US)     12 / 22       
Highlander,

You forgot to mention the Balista towers that Egypt get's as well. Well placed towers reck havoc on ele's (When backed by hordes of SC's and a bunch of "Hoyo's".

-Scarab

joecho
Clubman
posted 08-31-99 10:28 AM ET (US)     13 / 22       
Thinker,

Hey, I know what you mean. My last random game w/ Carth was quite enjoyable, even though my team lost. And I was up against a good Egy player at that. I didn't even bother w/ the phants and cents in that game. Just heles, HAs, remes and FGs. When I get Carth, I expect to lose, but do my very best, and I enjoy every minute of it. I would certainly enjoy the game more so than winning the game w/ Shang.

But in my last post, I wasn't talking about Egyptians. Believe me, you don't need to be Egy to convert the phants. How does a weak priest civ like Hitt do it? Well, Hitt at least gets astrology. Well, any AE that survives through the cat/ha fire (w/ ballistics) will still have scythes and priests to deal with. And Carth HAs cannot even dream of killing the Hitt priests nested within the cat/ha. And some other civs with even worse priests that Hitt (Min, Rome) gets dual siege, or some serious siege fire (Sumer). Oy vey. And an incomplete dual siege civ like Assy, gets great priests. See the agony of being Carth here?

Question of the day: why didn't ES give Carth full priests to reconvert like they did w/ the other phant-bonus civs (Persia, Phoe)? The world may never know.

BenAtLarge
Inactive
posted 08-31-99 11:06 AM ET (US)     14 / 22       
IMHO, Babs take out Carths better than any other civ. Their navy sucks compared to a Carth navy, but shoreline Bab towers are extremely hard to take out even with the bonus fire galleys. Without siege ships, Carth shouldn't be able to dent the Bab coast too much. Ballista towers and a few HCats defending the coast should hold off of a Carth navy.

On land, Carth has almost no chance. Babylonian priests devour elephant hordes almost as well as Egyptian priests. HCats can take out even Carth ellies with the fixed cat bug, and ellie archers also go down to HCats. Put a few scythes in front of the priest/HCats to act as ellie roadblocks and strong Ball towers by the priests for protection, and Carth's chances are looking slim...

I think Choson would take out Carth in much the same way, although I haven't tried it. How is Carth going to take down 12 range Ball Towers? 12 range Helos might do the job, but it would cost you a lot of gold. 12 range ST? Convert them or send in the legions. AE? Convert or take down with your own helos. And the Carth navy shouldn't do too much to the extra-range towers because Carth has no siege ships.

And as noted, dual siege will maul any combo Carth can put on the field. Even Shang might be able to take out this combo (scythe in front, then cat, then heles, then fully upgraded priest hoyohoyoing the ellies...)

[This message has been edited by BenAtLarge (edited 08-31-99).]

Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-31-99 11:16 AM ET (US)     15 / 22       
Or better yet - some priest resistance like Mace.
joecho
Clubman
posted 08-31-99 05:07 PM ET (US)     16 / 22       
Thinker,

Heles and camels, huh. Try the Roman hele and scythe that I mentioned earlier. Btw, credit here goes to Warlust's Roman guide, after reading which, I first began using that combo. Really simple to use, w/o any friendly fire worries. Massive damage, and a lot of chaos.

-joecho

SoulArcher
Clubman
posted 09-01-99 02:08 AM ET (US)     17 / 22       
Of course Hittie is the most powerful civ (When dealing with Military), why do you think they rule DM so bad? All I gotta say.
Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 09-01-99 06:34 AM ET (US)     18 / 22       
It would be so great if ES would release a civ balance patch for RoR
Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 09-01-99 06:47 PM ET (US)     19 / 22       
Speed is power. Superior Iron age stuff means shat if it doesn't survive past tool.

I like Hittite, it's just everything dies misserably to Shang in def, land, rm.

-Local_Yokel

Bi0Logic
Inactive
posted 09-01-99 06:54 PM ET (US)     20 / 22       
I hate buiding Helepolis, they are cool and destructive but they die so easily...I'm very stingy with my units.

------------------
BioLogic strikes again...

Thinker42
Clubman
posted 09-01-99 11:37 PM ET (US)     21 / 22       
Bi0Logic, I have always felt the same way about helepolis. Until I saw what 20 or more of them could do together with something strong in front of them. If you can't get a big group of them then the resources would be better spent on other units.
Bi0Logic
Inactive
posted 09-04-99 07:28 PM ET (US)     22 / 22       
Regardless if there are 20 of them, Thinker. True they are very destructive but in turn they are easily destroyed. In my case, since I am mostly a Hittite player, Helepolis are completely innefective against me, because they are easily blown away by Catapults, and absolutely vaporized by Heavy catapults, if I bother to upgrade them, that is. Backup units such as Scythes, Centurions, Armored E's, or the mighty HHa's may counter those "strong units".

------------------
BioLogic strikes again...

You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires Heaven | HeavenGames