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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Computer opponents get free food ?
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Topic Subject:Computer opponents get free food ?
AxemanJim
Inactive
posted 08-27-99 01:07 AM ET (US)         
When playing against the computer I noticed that it always seemed to tool and bronze way before me. I decided to study the computer's moves in order to learn how it moves so fast. What I found out appears to be that the computer cheats by giving itself free food!!!!!!

Here's how I found this out:

I started a hill country game against one computer opponent and with one computer ally. As soon as the game started I made a house, created 3 new villagers, and moved them all over to my ally's camp to serve as 'watchers'. I used the Macedonian civ because it gave my villagers increased line of sight to watch with. I stationed one 'watcher' by my ally's town center, one by his wood pit, one by his berries, and the rest I just scattered around his camp so that I could see anything and everything that moved.

About 5 minutes into the game my ally tooled but it did so without collecting any food!!! It was a resources=default game and yet it did not need to pick berries or hunt at all to get to the tool age. In the stone age, it made a few villagers and all of it's guys just sat around and chopped wood and built buildings. Meanwhile, we humans have to be foraging and hunting like crazy to compete.

I have more computer-opponent beefs too like how they seem to always know where your camp is without scouting by that's another story.

Anyhooo, does anybody have any explanation for this tricky free-food play?

Axeman Jim

AuthorReplies:
cornflakes
Inactive
posted 08-27-99 01:47 AM ET (US)     1 / 12       
What was the difficulty? If it was hardest then the computer starts out with a lot extra resources so it might not have to collect any food in order to Tool, or Bronze for that matter.
borgboy12
Clubman
posted 08-27-99 02:43 AM ET (US)     2 / 12       
On hardest the computer starts with 28,000 resources. But be glad it does, if not it would completely suck at the game!!! Oh, and this isn't cheating, it is just a bonus it gets for being dumb
Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-27-99 09:37 AM ET (US)     3 / 12       
Just a minor correction. In RM-default, computer players on hardest start with 2200 in food and a comparable amount of wood along with at least 1000 each of stone and gold. It still uses the same AI as on hard level.
TheDarkLord
Inactive
posted 08-27-99 02:31 PM ET (US)     4 / 12       
I'll have to disaggree with that Alex! On Hardest the Comp does not give up as fast as on Hard and they also rebuild alot better and faster and sometimes in different locations!
borgboy12
Clubman
posted 08-27-99 04:19 PM ET (US)     5 / 12       
Sorry Thinker, its been tested. Your catapult hitting enemy wonder almost to oblivian then repairing it and counting the resources it uses up. Keep doing that till the computer runs out of resources (all he had was a wonder) and add all the figures up and you have 28,000 of something Not necasarily food, or wood, or stone, or gold. But he has 28,000 of either wood, stone, gold or all 3
Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-27-99 05:13 PM ET (US)     6 / 12       
Borgboy12, maybe I should have explained how I got my numbers. I used the SB, gave myself a bunch of priests and the computer player a TC. I then started converting vills as they popped out of the TC. At 44 they stopped (44*50 = 2200). Just to make sure the AI wasn't giving up I tribbed 100 food. Sure enough, 2 more vills popped out. I did it again and 2 more. As to the wood I did something similar and let the computer build buildings. As it did I converted them and the computer would build another one. I kept track of all the buildings and their cost. I finally got tired of it at somewhere over 1500 wood and figured the final number wasn't that important. I also did the wonder thing. I beat it down to 1 HP then allied and rebuilt it. In rebuilding it costs a little over 500 each wood, stone, and gold to bring it back to full hp. I beat it down again and rebuilt again. It didn't quite get back to full hp before running out of resources. Since I knew it wasn't wood that ran out I knew it was either stone or gold. I did assume that the computer got equal amounts of both but maybe only one ran out. Once again I point out this was RM, DEFAULT resources, not DM or high resources. Maybe I have made a false assumption somewhere, if so point it out.
borgboy12
Clubman
posted 08-27-99 05:17 PM ET (US)     7 / 12       
Mesa gonna test some and come back later
BAH_Farmbug
Inactive
posted 08-29-99 02:36 PM ET (US)     8 / 12       
Thinker is on the right track here.

Having done a similar SB test a while back (I wasn't as kind, though; I killed the computer's vills instead of converting them,) I can verify that on Hardest default the computer used exactly 2200 food.

My assumption (I know, could be wrong; don't play the computer often enough for it to be an issue) since then has always been that the computer starts with a bonus of 2000 of every resource in addition to the resources allocated by the resource setting. That would mean (food-wise) 2200 on default, 2500 on medium and 2800 on high. Those numbers would be identical for wood. Maybe testing on high is where Borgboy got his "28,000" figure.

If true, this would mean the computer got 2000 gold on each setting. As I said, I could be wrong on these figures. But simply adding 2000 of each resource seems like the most likely thing for Ensemble to do (read as: it was the easiest thing for them to do.)

borgboy12
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 01:01 AM ET (US)     9 / 12       
ok, in my tests the computer (on hardest) has 2,200 food and 2,220 wood/stone/gold. It could be just one of those three have 2,220 and the others have more. But who knows? ES would
Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 01:37 AM ET (US)     10 / 12       
I had done kind of the same thing, several months back. (January or February, I don't remember. I posted the results.) I did exactly the same thing (killing and all) with villagers, and came up with a food value between 2200 and 2249. I changed the AI and had it generate swordsmen until it ran out of food, and he was not able to make his 63rd swordsman, thus the range was narrowed 2200-2204. Taking the most likely possibility, I redid the test, and tribbed 4 food. He was not able to make a swordsman. I re-ran the scenario and tribbed 5 this time, and bingo. I am convinced 2200 is the right answer.

I did the same tweaking with slingers to figure out stone, with impies and swordsmen to figure out gold, with bowmen and fishing boats to figure out wood. As I recall, I figured out that on default hardest, it simply added 2000 to every resource. I never checked the other settings.

Keep your stick on the ice.

Cherub Lobby
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 03:11 AM ET (US)     11 / 12       
You guys have toooo much time on your hands !

But thanks anyway its explains something Iíve always wanted to know but didnít have the time.. or the nouse.. to find out !

borgboy12
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 02:57 PM ET (US)     12 / 12       
LOL Lobby
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