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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » I Just tried 20Egy ca's vs 15bland ha's and the CA's WIN!!
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Topic Subject:I Just tried 20Egy ca's vs 15bland ha's and the CA's WIN!!
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hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-23-99 08:06 PM ET (US)         
First of all I havn't been smoking crack.

I have just gotten done testing 20Egyptian Ca's lined up in a half-moon, with 15 bland(greek) ha's lind up in the middle. They were both set to post-Iron age. The first time I tested, there were 11 ca's left, the second time there were 9, and the third time there were 12 left. I have not the slitest clue why, so don't ask me.

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Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!

AuthorReplies:
APC_Doink
Inactive
posted 07-23-99 09:48 PM ET (US)     1 / 66       
Umm i just tested it like you said and the HA just ran away and at the end there were more HA than CA's.


I was victorious with my CA's in the end. I dropped the nuke, errr i mean diediedie. Hehehehe

[This message has been edited by APC_Doink (edited 07-23-99).]

Potejon
Clubman
posted 07-24-99 07:43 AM ET (US)     2 / 66       
No surprise since 20 HA's lost to 15 egy before
armagedn
Clubman
posted 07-24-99 12:16 PM ET (US)     3 / 66       
4 egyptian chariots vs. 20 fully upgraded hittite cats and 15 macedonian phalanx, and the chariots emerge unscathed! yadda yadda yadda. I like Egypt, too, but gimme a break already. They ain't a top-tier civ in RM, DM, or any M. No offense, Hy, but maybe you should play Random Civs a bit more (still my fave civ choice).

I look at Egypt like Choson. A unique civ, and a blast to play, but if I'm goin' against equal or superior opposition, I'm in for an uphill battle.

Knight_Day
Inactive
posted 07-24-99 12:26 PM ET (US)     4 / 66       
Actually Egy are quite a powerful civ, they get composite bowmen and with that gold bonus you wont have trouble in bronze getting the gold to pump them out either. They also get priests that convert elephant's easy, and there CA's and scythes with the double HP are killers. Egy are not a superpower but I would put them way above Choson for RM (I don't play DM btw), any civ is dangerous to people who underestimate them, and any civ can be usefull if you have the experiance and will to use them.

Knight_Day

armagedn
Clubman
posted 07-24-99 07:42 PM ET (US)     5 / 66       
Day, for the record, I did not equate Egypt w/ Choson, I merely said they are both "unique," as is Macedonia. They take a particular style to play, and, by extension, particular players. I certainly rate Egypt higher than Choson in RM, no question. But they aren't close to Shang, Hittite, or Phoe in the top tier. Hell, I'd put Choson down near the bottom, but unlike fellow bottom-feeders Carth and Greek, I enjoy playing them.

This, of course, was also meant to try to give our good friend Hydarnes, he of the very narrow view of "Egypt or why bother?" some perspective. He seems to set up test after test where Egypt wins, hands down. Even if these tests are all valid (and, like the camera, they're bound to reflect their creator, and may not tell the whole story), so WHAT?

Not to mention, in the heat of battle, I'll take 15 HA's (any) against his 20 Egyptian CA's, any day o' the week. While he's standing there in his little test square, waiting to go mano e mano, and prove me wrong, I'll be in his town, sending all his little villies off to meet their maker.

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 00:10 AM ET (US)     6 / 66       
First of all I have to say that I made a mistake in the topic called "total war" and I accidently said that I tested in the SB and 15ca's defeated 20ha's, when I meant to say that 20ca's defeated 15ha's. SORRY

APC_doink, really the ha's ran away??? It didn't happen for me.

armagedn,

quote: "But they aren't close to Shang, Hittite, or Phoe in the top tier"

What??? did I hear you right??? They would most likely eat phoeny. And Hittite?????, they are the ultimate counter to Hittite, considering both , bronze and Iron ages. And shang? Shang only win because their really fast, not because they have superior military.

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Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!

sarmis_Slayer
Inactive
posted 07-25-99 01:11 AM ET (US)     7 / 66       
il take my egyptian vs your hitt or whatever it isd you play now ne setings but dm heck even dm (no cheats) well see who wins muahhaha(were almost even skill right)

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I am but one of many.

armagedn
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 01:26 AM ET (US)     8 / 66       
Now I understand you. You have no desire to play an economic strategy game. Shang beats Egypt because of cheap villagers. Phoe, despite your laughable "argument," beats Egypt because of their massive wood intake.

And of the three mentioned, amongst equal players, I will guarantee you 8 out of 10 will choose Hittite over Egypt, if not more (I sure as hell would), simply because the quantity AND quality of their military bonuses is greater, and comes into play much earlier in the game.

Newsflash... it IS an economic game. Egypt's "bonus," faster goldmining, is practically worthless as an economic enhancement, at least when measured against Shang, Phoe, Minoa, hell, even against Summie farms.

Will Egypt chariots beat Phoe chariots in equal number? Of course. Will Egypt CA's beat Phoe? Well, NO. Why? Because it's an ECONOMIC game, and Phoe will have MORE MORE MORE. There shouldn't BE an equal number (war isn't fair).

If you simply want to bash units around, and never mind the messy bother of actually fishing, hunting, farming, chopping, etc, why don't you play Myth II? I have a copy I'm not using.

Mark_Aurel
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 02:48 AM ET (US)     9 / 66       
I agree completely with Armagedn on this. The real issue should really be "Would Egyptian Bowmen defeat Phoenician CAs?". If you play Egypt, I'd just Tool Rush you out of the game, or maybe wait until Bronze and humiliate you there by beating you with Chariots, etc. Phoenicia is the second best civilization in the game behind Shang. As Armagedn pointed out, economic bonuses beat the **** out of military bonuses. The only reason Hittite is among the top tribes is because it has three of the five best military bonuses in the game. In a competitive 1v1 Egypt doesn't really stand a chance. I could agree, however, that Egypt is a good civ to counter Hittites. But that's about it. Egypt is nowhere near Hittites in general power. The gold mining bonus really becomes worthless after about 25-30 minutes, as the Hittite will likely acquire Coinage and be better at mining gold, as will many other civs.
Mark_Aurel
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 02:51 AM ET (US)     10 / 66       
One more thing, Hydarnes: To claim that 20 CAs can defeat 15 HAs is quite ridiculous. The HAs do far more damage than the CAs, and they have Piercing Armour against the attacks of the CAs. Unless you cheated in your test somehow, or didn't test it as you claim, it would be mathemathically quite difficult for the CAs to win.
Wuzat
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 08:10 AM ET (US)     11 / 66       
There is one giant hole in this!The only civs that have HA w/o alchemy are choson and shang. Any competent player would research alchemy when massing archers. And if you let a choson iron... you deserve to lose!

Mark, if Hittitte have 3of 5, are the other 2 the sumie cat FR and assy archer FR? I would include phoe cat Reme/Jugg rate too.

Knight_Day
Inactive
posted 07-25-99 11:38 AM ET (US)     12 / 66       
Your quite right in that the Egy gold mining bonus is usless after 25-30 mins, that's why an intelligent player needs to take advantage of it in bronze and not wait till the other civ's get coinage. As for pheo beeting the snot out of Egy, I'm quite familuar with Pheo and Egy and Pheo kicks the snot out of Egy, Pheo collect more (a little) wood than Pamlers do in both stone and tool(havent checked Bronze and Iron), this is with equal number's of villager's(Palmer's don't normally have more peons or even equal peons due to there high vill cost, unless you are lucky to be next to lots of shorefish), or maybe I did the test wrong.

One thing your all forgetting is that HA's cost gold, CA's don't, cut off both the gold suppies of the Egy and the Hittite and the Hittite is dead, but so what just a mute point.

BTW, did you put your CA's on a hill?

Knight_Day

[This message has been edited by Knight_Day (edited 07-25-99).]

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 12:11 PM ET (US)     13 / 66       
hahhahahah, Phoney kicks the snot outa egypt. OH please, I'd like to see Phoeny counter Egypts SUPER SCYTHES. ANd please don't say Elies cuz there just food for the temple.

And, Yes it is true that 13 Phoeny Ca's will beat 10Egy one's, but Chariots and Scythe also have to be taken into consideration.

YOu think I care if most people chose hittite over Egypt??? Infact I LOVE it when people chose HITTITE, cuz I LOVE to Humiliate them. But It also depends on the player, and I have been defeated by hittite before.


NO I did not put my ca's on a hill.

Mark_aural, I could say that 30compies beating 15 hittite HHa's is quite ridiculous too, because the HHa's inflict much more, but the fact is, is that the 30compies WIN. And I beg your pardon but, why did you say this?:


"........or maybe wait until Bronze and humiliate you there by beating you with Chariots, etc."

beat Egypt with Chariots??? EGYPT RULES WITH CHARIOTS, there's no way that phoe can defeat Egyptian chariots. ANd also Phoe dousn't even have Mettalurgy(sp?) .

And armagedn, I don't want to get into another Shakespearian debate, but I thought that you told me that you were an Egyptian fan.


Egypts 20% gold mining useless??? If egypt didn't have that, they wouldn't be the ultimate priest civ. And it also helps them get enough gold to get to Iron faster normal civs.


------------------
Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!


[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 07-25-99).]

Knight_Day
Inactive
posted 07-25-99 03:59 PM ET (US)     14 / 66       
Take a pill loser, with pheo I'll have tones more CA's than you Egy would, as I said Pheo collect wood VERY fast, for two people of equal skill:

more wood = more food = Faster times = earlier Armies = more armies sooner

Knight_Day

[This message has been edited by Knight_Day (edited 07-25-99).]

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 04:31 PM ET (US)     15 / 66       
Well, isn't it nice that I can just steal all your armies away.

------------------
Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!

Knight_Day
Inactive
posted 07-25-99 04:48 PM ET (US)     16 / 66       
Well isint it nice that even Egy priests take days to convert CA's?

Knight_Day

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 05:23 PM ET (US)     17 / 66       
I just got done testing 10Egy SC's vs 13 Phoeny SC's. And there were all 10Egyptian SC's left.

And isn't it nice to know that not one of your ca's will beable to kill one of my priests, because I've got a wall up. Wolo wolo

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Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 07-25-99).]

Potejon
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 05:24 PM ET (US)     18 / 66       
First off phoe should and would kill egy, no matter how good their ca's are. Secret lies in numbers and nobody cuts wood like phoe plus phoe would bronze faster or have a much bigger boom. And taking sea and so on is a real pain if you are playing a phoe.

Hittite egy is interesting but I think hit should win, great st's and ca's.

metallurgy really have NO impact whatsoever in ca wars.

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 05:33 PM ET (US)     19 / 66       
Potejon, This isn't just a battle of Ca's. Do you know what Scythe Chariots are??? Do you know what Mettalurgy involves, it means that all of Egypts hand-to-hand units will win in the end.

Hittite should win??? There isn't one unit that hittite has, that Egypt can't counter


Egypt doesn't have much prob with sea, since their Long Range Priests will outrange any of phoe's ships.


And Nobility benifits Egypt more than Any other civ.
------------------
Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 07-25-99).]

Wuzat
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 05:39 PM ET (US)     20 / 66       
he is right. i stuck 20 Phoe SC vs 10 Egy SC in post iron and Egy won with 2 losses and small casualties. The reasons are : (phoe on left)
A)137 HP vs 182 HP
B)5 actual attack vs 11 actual attack.
C)more SC are harder to manuever and half of the Phoe SC arent attacking and all are dieing.


hehe the : ( showed up as a smiley!

[This message has been edited by Wuzat (edited 07-25-99).]

Mark_Aurel
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 06:10 PM ET (US)     21 / 66       
The thing is, Hydarnes doesn't seem to understand how powerful economic bonuses are compared to military bonuses. The economic bonuses of Phoenicians and Shang put them way above any other civilizations. When I said that Phoe could humiliate Egyptians by beating them with Chariots and CAs, I meant it. What do you do when your opponent has his Chariots a full minute before you do? Die.

It is really na´ve to think that Egypt could survive to get Scythes in a game involving a competent Phoenician player. The entire point of Phoe's game would be to prevent that, as the Phoe gets weaker compared to the Egyptian as time passes, and would have to depend on early attacks. Early attacks are always better than later ones, due to the domino effect. The thing is, Phoe could convert Egy's ass away - using Priests against Tool Age armies must certainly be fun.

Nobody would deny that Egyptian SCs are the best in the game. Only a moron would suggest otherwise. Also, only a moron would think that Egypt is a better civ than Phoenician concerning game power. That's simply it. Mathemathics support me, as does the experience of thousands of players, having played thousands of games - on average, Phoe beats Egypt. That's it. You can deny it all you want, but it won't make the facts go away.

I'd be happy to indulge you and play Phoe v. Egypt sometime. Since I suck, you'd probably beat me, but what the heck.

One final thing I've been wondering: Hydarnes, do you always win when you play AoE/RoR, or do you have to receive some sort of forgiveness from this "God" character you believe in - if you don't win all the time, doesn't that make you a horrible sinner?

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 06:35 PM ET (US)     22 / 66       
Mark_Aural, I sure do understand that economical bonuses are better than Military ones. THe point is, is that you act as if Phoe is like two days faster than Egypt.

And concerning Phoe beating Egypt, well I'm afraid Mark that things just arn't as 1,2,3 simple as you say they are. I don't think that Egypt owns Phoe, I'm just saying that Phoe doesn't own Egypt.

Why would you think that just because I believe in God means that I am supposed to win everytime I play a GAME. WHat would that prove if I were supposed to win a GAME every time I would play anyway??? Mark please don't start anymore Religious things, thanx

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Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!


[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 07-25-99).]

Mark_Aurel
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 07:06 PM ET (US)     23 / 66       
...but Phoenician does own Egypt, just as it "owns" just about any other civ but Shang. It's as simple as that. Phoenician is the second fastest civ in the game behind Shang, with every bit the versatility of Shang up until Bronze Age. Egypt isn't a very versatile civ, is it? You would usually play upon it's two strength: Priests and Chariots. Phoe has more options than Egypt, and a better economy. Phoe owns Egypt. Simple, eh?

I didn't start any religious thing. I merely asked if you won every game, since you had previously stated that any army that has the hypothethical character God on it's side would. I asked a question about one of those cheap wooden crosses some people seem to worship for some reason. The fact that you're delusional would only decrease your gaming ability.

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-25-99 07:25 PM ET (US)     24 / 66       
Oh Really!!! it's that simple??? WOW I'm mind blown.

phoenician is the 3 fastest civ behind shang. Assyrian and Yamm are second.

Not versitile huh? Yes I would use Chariot archers, chariots, scythe chariots, priests, but I would use many things besides, such as: ships hoplites, compostite bowmen, elies, elie archers,slingers, OH, and most of all, Camels, etc.....

you act as if phoe own so many civs. They die to helo civs, just like Egypt.


that's not starting anything huh? Well, "simply" is still starting something.

WHat ????? any army with God's side on it will win??? OF course. BUT NOT AN ARMY IN A GAME!!!
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Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!


[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 07-25-99).]

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 07-25-99).]

mixmasterjeff
Inactive
posted 07-25-99 09:08 PM ET (US)     25 / 66       
i like egy not cuz of their ca's but there chariots due to the fact that they can be a. upgraded to scythe and b. more hitpoints (133) i think , anyway i was playing a game with uhh sarmis apoc and darq fx and i was egy so they had many ca's and i had around 20 chariots (with nobility) and a couple camles , and they got around the flank of the ca's and they managed to kill them with only losing a single charoit, but then i was overwhelmed
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