You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
Moderated by Suppiluliuma, PhatFish, Fisk, EpiC_Anonymous, Epd999

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.27 replies
Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Shang needs a master hand ....
Bottom
Topic Subject:Shang needs a master hand ....
Stooge_Farsan
Inactive
posted 11-23-98 04:55 AM ET (US)         
Following the crowd, I have also played a few games with Shang .... And I found it is really waek in my hand.

I guess playing shang is like to have a sweet spot - in good hand, you can maximize the effect, and in intermidate hand, like me, you just can not use the advantage...The sad fact is : shang can always gurantee a "Sweet spot" with food.

As others said, shang's advantage is temporary - if you can not use it, you will loose. Once in iron, the only units they can use is probably Scythe, and most other iron units are inferior (not sure about rax units, but it usually sucks anyways).

I played many Shang oppoents - some loose some wins. In my hosted game, play any civs you like - if I loose to shang, that player is most likely just better than me - I will loose anyway even he play other civs.

My advice to players, specially those below intermediate level, do not play Shang if you can not bronze around 13 min and launch effective rushes - and a rusher has to work really intensive right from the start of the game, which really does not suit me - becasue I come to zone for relax


Stooge_Farsan

[This message has been edited by Stooge_Farsan (edited 11-23-98).]

AuthorReplies:
Ender
Guest
posted 11-23-98 06:31 AM ET (US)     1 / 27       
Wrong,wrong,wrong,wrong,wrong. Shang does every strat you can think of well. The are the best villager/boat boomers, the best tool rushers, the best bronze rushers, the best iron rushers, the best wonder rushers. In iron they are okay on the sea since they have fire galley's, the get catapults, helepolis, full priests, scythe chariots, horse archers, heavy cavalry, guard towers. Not really a great iron but certainly not a bad one considering you'll probably be out-producing your enemy.

The true power of shang is in an experts hands though. Your right about that part. With an average water type map I'd expect to bronze in 13 minutes with 35+ villagers/boats every game with Shang. This is hard to beat.


dashingdave
Inactive
posted 11-23-98 07:08 AM ET (US)     2 / 27       
Well, quit honestly, Shangs strentghs are not in the villager/boat boom. Don't get me wrong, they do it better than most other civs, especially if you don't find that sweet spot right away. My biggest fear when playing against Shang is that while I'm doing MY villager/boat boom, my opponent is shore fishing, NOT building boats, tooling at 6-8 mins, and killing me at 9 mins.

Shang villager/boat booms are NOT that much faster than the other civs. If I find my sweet spot, with forrest and 2 shore fish, quickly, I can tool with most civs in less than 11 mins with 35+ workers. Shang simply gives you more time to search for that spot.


Laelius
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 09:02 AM ET (US)     3 / 27       
I would agree with Stooge, especially in 3vs3 or 4vs4 games with only one or two shangs on each side respectively. Their advantage is not as strong in team games. I have only used them 4 times when I got stuck with them in random civ games, and I can usually chase someone out of a town in bronze, but get pushed back in iron. Experts Im sure do better.

However in 1vs1 or 2vs2 they dominate the game, because they can eat up the map fast, and also rule in tool attacks except aggainst Rome.

I hate shang in ror the same way I hated assyrian in aoe, because everyone makes them into this kind of machine. The mindless rush or boom becomes boring. I like games with more strategy, so I always take second best civs if I have a choice.
I like phoeny, and Rome for huge, and large maps. And Hitite or Minoa or Sumer or choson for Gigantic. But my favorite challenge is Mace. I love their deaf and arrowproof academy and the cheap st's backed by compies. But like I said I like a challenge, and I lose alot .


Laelius


Spam
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 09:53 AM ET (US)     4 / 27       
I have to agree with Dave on this one. The great strength of Shang lies in their ability to toolrush hard AND reach bronze in a reasonable time. In the early game, the villager discount is a huge advantage, basically giving you the initiative and the opportunity to set the pace of the game. The longer the game lasts, the weaker this advantage becomes. Usually, Shang players will not have (significantly) bigger economies than other players after 35-40 minutes or so. Actually, on water maps Phoenie and Minoa can often beat Shang in the villager count.

People often say that Shang has a good iron (or at least a reasonable one), and I have tended to agree. In practice, however, I have seen plenty of Shang iron armies fall flat on their face against civs with strong siege.

My 2 cents.

Spam


Ender
Guest
posted 11-23-98 11:47 AM ET (US)     5 / 27       
Not true, no civ can come close to shang when it comes to boat booming in the first 15 minutes. The fact that you can start pumping out boats by the 4 minute mark with shang makes all the difference. I've done up to 60 boats/villagers with shang and still bronzed in 15 minutes, with a small 5 scout tool rush to boot. This can be done with a SP by 5 shore fish and a forest. What I would call a dream spot.


Jehu
Inactive
posted 11-23-98 02:06 PM ET (US)     6 / 27       
I basically agree Farsan. If I play Shang I will go for some type of rush, be it tool, bronze, or iron; or I'll boom and try to win with overwehlming resources. It would be a waste of Shang's talents not to. Also, as you said, the Shang player needs to take advantage of his early speed in advancing or he may as well be playing some other civ. You have to play smart to really take advantage of Shangs potentail dominance.

Shang is sometimes popular among rookies that have not mastered the art of resource acquisition in the early game. In other words, they play Shang because they are usually short of food and like the cheap villagers. These are the Shang players that die in the first 25 minutes in team games because everyone focuses on them assuming they are good.

Jehu


dshea
Inactive
posted 11-23-98 02:39 PM ET (US)     7 / 27       
Gonna have to go with Ender on this one. Let me explain why with a story.

Played with Farsan and tates vs Shem_p and 2 others, random civ. They ended up with Egypt hittite and choson, we got egypt mace and I got SHANG. Playing on Narrows, I was on an island separated by water from the rest. I told my partners separated and could not tool rush, so I was booming. Pop 100 game and I boomed to 78, ironed in 25. Trannied over to the mainland, where my partners were holding. tates under siege, beaten into his town, Farsan fighting Shem_p and the hittite in the hittie's town. At 28 I killed everyone with 28 fully upgraded scythes and 10 has. Game over.

Now I did not boom as well as I could have, nor did I run my economy correctly, I had too much gold. But the point was that I killed everyone. They had no chance.

I definitely am not a top tier player, and know that I can be beat, but I understand what to do with the various civs, and try to use them well. Right now we run into lots of people who have heard that Shang is a good civ, but haven't read the forums or the strat guides. They use Shang and we beat them because they go to 30 vills and try to shoot for iron, or they are not aggressive enough and build only 2 stables and 2 archeries.

Eventually, they will all clue in, as happened in AOE with the bronze guides. In AOE, a 20 minute bronze assured you of a good game. Then it was 18 minutes. Then it was 16 minutes. Soon you were in games playing all assyrian with 13 minute bronzes the norm. Same thing will eventually happen here. Joe average will read the equivalent of CD's bronze guide and Shang will be globally unbeatable.

Right now we are at the point in ROR that I find the most fun. We all try new things and are learning the way to optimize out playing styles. Eventually, that will be mostly completed, and the general game skill level will rise. At that point, the civ advantages will become very clear. No Shang will be a common title, I think.

I can remember when the first "Slow civ" games were made in AOE. They were only Yam and Assy. Then Shang was added, then Phoenie. The same progression is happening in ROR. Denying the advantages of Shang is simply not recognizing the state we are at in the development of playing the game.


Laelius
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 04:27 PM ET (US)     8 / 27       
dshea,
That is a good example, but, in a recent small intermediate tournee I was in a similar thing happened on a coastal map. But this time it was RamMars that had an Island to himself with Phoenie. He boomed while my team struggled aggainst WarLust and TheForge on the mainland, and then invaded like a force of nature and destroyed us.

My point is having the Island allows you to boom and not have to worry too much about being rushed by a neihbor or walling. I think I might even fear it worse if you had Hitite on an Island and boomed with 64 vils in a 27 minute iron. Then when you landed the mainland would soon resemble the surface of the moon .

I believe Shang is deadly, and even overwhelming, but in team games if their are not to many Shang, and the Shang is attackable, the game is still more playable than a 2vs2 or 1vs1 aggainst Shang.


NoSoup4U
Inactive
posted 11-23-98 04:48 PM ET (US)     9 / 27       
No Shang games are certainly on the way.

I wonder why people don't think they aren't. In ROR Yamoto and Assy have been toned down but Shang hasn't. Sure the shore fish rates are a bit slower but that certainly won't make a difference in timing.

Throw in scythe chariots, full strength boats, and the ability to recover well if you lose a lot of peons (35 food per) and shang is clearly the best civ overall civ in the game.

Did they really need to give shang camels? The rich certainly got richer.

By the way dshea, any change in your thoughts about palmy? If you like scythes they have a decent iron.


postapokalyptic
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 05:01 PM ET (US)     10 / 27       
Full strength boats?? Shang has full strength boats?? that is one of the reasons Shang Iron blows....because they have no sea power! No Balistics, no alchemy, no tremeirs. Hmmm.


neilkaz
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 05:05 PM ET (US)     11 / 27       
The more I play Shang in ROR the more I like them ! I like the ability to tool/bronze or even iron fast, combined with the flexibility to abandon the fast bronze rush( and boy they are fast!)and switch to a boat/peon boom strategy. Shang can also infest large maps and high pop games w/multiple TC and crank out 50 real peons. A real strength is that with Shang you can easily build all your peon with no time wasted due to lack of food even if you did LOTS of exploring. ( ie build 17 peons in 5:40 ending up w/20)
Shang can tool faster because they need to spend less food on peons and this also makes their tool rush stronger... due to speed and more food.
Shang's OK in iron , scythe, hele's, HA's
(even HHA's if you hit pop limit)and Cat's
but there siege suffers due to range limitations. Many 3v3 games on the zone lately are filled with players who want to sit back and fight in iron where unless Shang
has a hugely better economy they can have trouble w/ great siege civ's. So I have had a bit of trouble playing Shang w/teammates like that.. ie I had a good spot and hit on enemy
in early bronze hard and chased the rest of his peons down and he resigned .. both remaining enemies countered attcked me and after a struggle of 5 minutes and several battles they overwhelmed me... all the while
I told my "allies"what was up and never saw
a single military unit from them !!
But if you play Shang w/good teamate(s)
the early rush is very powerful. Last night
I play for double Shang games w/BOXSTRETCHER aslo Shang as my partner for 2v2.. not one game was close, and the only worry we had was
handled very well by BOX. absorbing an axer rush.
Ender is completely correct in saying that 13min bronze/35 peons/boats is very hard to deal with. - neilkaz -


Angel Omnivac
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 06:43 PM ET (US)     12 / 27       
Some points...

Farsan, even though you say Shangs is weak in your hands, you should see that you're faster with them than with other civs. Whatever the goal you want to get, and the method to reach it, you'll get there first with Shangs.

dshea, I think the BIG difference on the zone presently is booming with fishing boats. Whether it's slow civs or any other games, a lot of players don't build 3 or more "villagers" at the same time in the beginning. Not only you get a huge advantage, afterward is really more easy. On Mediterranean maps for example, you will control the sea and you don't need to build a single farms all game long. Pretty much over when your opponents spend 75 wood for each farms.

Tool rushes play a big part, but for the purpose of bronzing and attacking, building only villagers (21-24) don't cut it anymore against 35+ villagers and fishing boats, where Aging times are the same.

Also, about the "isolated player" game, Shangs didn't have to do much with this. Any civs would have get you the same results and you would have wiped out the map. Shangs have an advantage in the beginning which they can exploit better than others, but quite frankly, when you are at 35-40 villagers and more, they are not faster than anyone else. Their only advantage is that they can attack very efficiently before anyone else at their leisure (played properly).

Another way to put it, all this Shang debate... anyone playing itself would win when using Shangs vs another civ, most of the time. (I'm leaving out let say intermediate players and below). I like the Egyptians and play alot of games with them (when not random), and quite honestly, OmniShang would kill OmniEgyptian most of the time (OmniEgyptian would be lucky sometime ).

Angel Omnivac

mud buddha2
Inactive
posted 11-23-98 07:12 PM ET (US)     13 / 27       
ender, that pitiful. 60 in 15? for shame. in RoR, i've tried hardcore booming 3 times vs the puter and 2 time with shang, once with phoen. In my time with rome, i got the regular 50 in 14. Then with shang, i got 60 in 15 and then 70 in 14. Why i would want 70 is beyond logic, but hey, it sounds impressive.

shang is xtremely versatile, would might possibly be their biggest strength. AS ender said, they can do all of those things the best. so, you xpect a shang tool rush and go all out tool time, only to see your opponent make peons in triple rate of you. Or, you simply go for a bronze rush, only to see your opponent stopped at 16 peons and then you see your 200 food, staring mockingly at you.

well post, every civ has some sort of naval power. I'll agree shang doesn't have the strongest navy in the world, but un-alchemy fire galls are good enuff. Also, when I am shang, i fully xpect to own the seas in tool or bronze.

shang iron is at least average, if not above average. they have the three best weapons (helies, marty priests, scyths) and some other stuff to boot (HHAs, cats, doublestrength walls,) Not many other civs have marty priests, scyths, and helies. The only fast civ with a better iron than shang is rome.

omni, shang is strong whether they're isolated or not. If they're isolated, they can just build a wonder. If they're kinda protected, yet not completely, they can just iron and pump scyths.


postapokalyptic
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 07:48 PM ET (US)     14 / 27       
70 in 14. ROFL! 'Nuff Said.


Jehu
Inactive
posted 11-23-98 08:45 PM ET (US)     15 / 27       
Good points Omnivac. Persoanlly, I have no interest in playing Shang in RoR. They were a legit option in AoE against Yassy, and with no clear advantage over those two IMHO. But in RoR they can be obscenely fast, at least when I have practiced with them.

I was posting back and forth with Thump some time back and he had a good quote about Shang:

quote:
Bronzing fast with Shang is like paying for s_x. Sure its fun, but you can't really brag about it.

In RoR that might could be applied to simply winning with Shang in a 1v1 or 2v2 against non-Shang opponents. That in itself makes them less attractive as a civ choice to me.


Sting
Clubman
posted 11-23-98 10:00 PM ET (US)     16 / 27       
sorry im testing to see if i finally got this profile thing to work right

oh ok i will post something so that this doesnt look useless

When I play, I do indeed prefer a longer game than a simple 20 min shang game, but if my opponant wishes to be shang I will not stand in his way, however I have to agree with stooge. Shang is a decent civ in the hands of someone who doesnt know how to use them, but omni is also right when he says that you can meet any goal faster with shang.

Will there be a patch for the shang "problem"? I doubt it.


Sting

The greatest threat to us is our own fear.

Stooge_Farsan
Inactive
posted 11-24-98 05:57 AM ET (US)     17 / 27       
Thx for the response. I think I should pratice more with shang to see its real strength -

In AoE, my best bronze time with Hittite is under 12 min, and my average bronze time with hittite is usually less than 1 min slower than assy. If shang bronze about the same time as Assy, I will certainly go for assy becasue of the archer bonus.

In RoR huge/gig map, I guess most players boom, and 16 min bronze is quite normal.

And dshea, we have in fact played another game (though I guess you did not intend to win in that game). It was me, Moe, and Hari vs you and 2 Ex_xxxs. One of them was shang, bronzed under 12 min and ironed around 19 min. He said later that he should have rushed us all :-) Anyways, he attacked too late and he could not match hittite. - It was really a nice game. I found you early next to me at 4:30 or so. I was counting in sec when I waited for tool, and put a large effort walled in my base. And I kept check the archivements and saw you tooled with 36 vills/boats or so. Moe was also shang and was asking if he should go iron directly, but we urged to him to attack the boomer - I think he hit your base at 4:30 at around 18 min, but you probably already moved base to 12 where the sea was (another example of bad inland map). ---my point is, if shang missed the attacking oppoturnity - shang is in trouble.

And my point in the first post is - shang is not good in every ones hand. It requires more skill to play shang, to maximize its advantage. And in lower-mediocry hands, the weakness of shang might be a major drawback. Other civs, like hittite, is easier - just build up and make a strong army with quality - there is less timing, at least not as much as shang.

A good player can certainly beat a shang who is less skilled - which means shang is not any secret weapon that who ever hold it win. In equal skilled hand, like Omni descirbed in other way, I am still doubt its effect in gig map team game - as many others mentioned, many other civs can boom almost as goog as shang, and they have millitary bonus.

In 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2, large map, I centainly agree that Shang is just too quick. But in team 3x3 (4x4) and gig map, I wonder how many players play shang ? And to go Wonder, shang is the best in gig map - just imagine 18 min iron, 20 min wonder up and 30 min game over....hittite really have to hurry up to get those super units and send them after the wonder.


Stooge_Farsan

Hari_Smurf
Inactive
posted 11-24-98 12:11 PM ET (US)     18 / 27       
Stooge_Farsan,
I remember that game well and it was a good example of what you are saying but not the only one I have seen by any means. Maybe Ender never plays with mere mortals but there are still plenty of us ordinary players on the zone. We hear Shang rule ror and so we feel we have to pick them. Then we make a pigs ear of a tool rush or a pathetic un upgraded camel rush in bronze. Then if we haven't been put out of our misery we can build lots of normal chariots (isn't that what sc means - shang chariots) in iron.
Generally overstated perhaps but picking Shang does not necessarily mean you know how to exploit them.
In an ordinary game I won't normally pick Shang because it doesn't suit my play style and I hate their relative impotentcy in iron. Yes, they are not the worse iron civ but who plays worse iron civs than Shang. If I was playing in any kind of game I would want my team to at least match the number of Shangs on the opposition team even if it meant playing them myself. But then I do the same with Hittite.
Hari


dshea
Inactive
posted 11-24-98 03:27 PM ET (US)     19 / 27       
That game is my point. Right now, people take Shang and don't know what to do with them. My partner shot for iron, but didn't know what to do when he was there. If he had attacked with his 14 minute bronze, the game was over, or if he had attacked with the 19 minute iron. Instead he rejoiced over his iron time and let me get nailed by Moe, the other SHANG. Again, Shang being dominant in our game.

Given a little time, the average player will know what to do by rote with Shang, the same way you know what to do by rote with Assy in AOE.

SC is not Shang Chariots, but Scythe Chariots, the first upgrade you should take when you hit Iron with Shang. When you have 30 Scythes in your city at 25 minutes, the game is over.


Stavesacre
Inactive
posted 11-24-98 04:08 PM ET (US)     20 / 27       
well, the Shang can do a lot, but one thing I learned--Shang can not over POWER strong Seige civs with their OWN seige weapons. In late Iron this is very obvious, after other civs upgrade to Hele and HCat. Sure Shang get Hele, BUT they don't get engineering, ballistics,or alchemy. even everyone's beloved Shang Scythes don't work to hot versus upgraded Hele and HCats.

Shang are good, however their game plan is speed. You need to strike fast and often. If you wait and build up until late in a game, your changes are not as great ( I don't think anyways ).


neilkaz
Clubman
posted 11-24-98 11:01 PM ET (US)     21 / 27       
The typical Shang 1v1 game goes like the one I had last night. Settings large, med, def, 100 pop conquest. I am Shang vs Rome.
I soon realized I was lightyears ahead of my opponent and relaxed and nibbles on the remains of dinner while crusing to a 21 min iron w/about 60 peons/boats previously having destroyed Rome's small and ill defended fishing fleet. At 28 my walled in and towered opponent resigns as I have 3 workshops out side his town and 15 HA's waiting along w/2 almost to be cat's tossing boulders at his walls/towers w/2 more cats on the way. I was just about to bump into the 100 pop cap. Routine game ! BTW I had 6000 resources remaing too.. ie I was just crusing/relaxing and that kind of boom is very hard to deal with. Many others can do it better/faster than me .. ie Shang kicks butt ! - neilkaz -


Hari_Smurf
Inactive
posted 11-25-98 06:44 AM ET (US)     22 / 27       
Dshea,
Perhaps Shang should have been dominant in that game but the point is that they weren't. Both Farsan and I were Hittite and played very defensively at the beginning. I can't speak for Farsan but I imagine for two reasons. We were afraid of the prospect of a Shang rush but we were probably more afraid of you and a very powerful Minoan bronze. You boomed to 36 peons before tooling, our Shang would have been devastating if he had hit you then, he didn't. Yes he did hit you eventually and I believe quite well, but he certainly didn't finish you off. I had walled myself in to too tight a hole and I didn't have the wood to resist your compies effectively. Yes if your Shang had backed you up then or if our Shang hadn't weakened you it would have been over for me. BUT when your Shang finally chose to attack it was too late and was a classic example of the weakness of Shang against Hittite in iron. What eventually made you and your Minoans give up, was it the Shang you faced or the Hittites?
Hari
PS. You played a blinder mate, just as I remember. All through the game it was what's d doing now, not what's the Shang doing now.


dashingdave
Inactive
posted 11-25-98 08:07 AM ET (US)     23 / 27       
70 workers in 14 mins?????? lol. That's maximum of 33 villagers(start with3 and 3/ min.) and the rest boats. You would have to build fishing boats straight through to bronze. Why would anyone want to do this??? You'd have no wood left for war boats to protect this fleet, no wood for gov't center and additional TCs. This would be a VERY weak start. Personally, if I build 40 boats/peons and stop building fishing boats when I click to GO tool, I still have too much food by bronze time. And after I reach bronze, I have 500-800 food to real villager boom and/or attack. As soon as I tool, I'm pumping out warboats non-stop to protect my fleet and kill off Mr. 70 peon guy's boats......lol.

My point is, YOU DON'T NEED ALL THE FOOD THAT MANY BOATS WOULD BRING IN. Balance is the key.


Spam
Clubman
posted 11-25-98 09:01 AM ET (US)     24 / 27       
In spite of popular opinion, I'd like to restate my point if I may. Shang is obscenely fast and can get a huge economy going faster than anyone else. We all agree on that. The best way to utilize this is to toolrush and (semi-)boom at the same time, something no other civ can do. As far as ironjumping goes, a number of other civs are pretty good at this too, so this is not the best way to utilize Shang. On water maps even traditional slow civs like Hittite can iron in 20-21 minutes if you leave them unmolested. And Phoenie, Rome and Minoa can do it even faster with a far superior iron age military (at least in my opinion). So I remain unconvinced that super-booming in the way you describe is the best way to use Shang.

As far as Shang iron age military goes, yes I think it stinks. Sure, they get a reasonable selection of units, good priests, etc., but the fact remains that Shang cannot effectively counter Iron age heavy hitters like Hittite or Rome. Scythes u say? Sure, nice units for killing peasants but they die in huge numbers against traditional iron age armies like the Hittite cat+HA combo, and the Roman Legion horde. I was awed by the SC in the beginning, but now I very rarely use them since they are very hard to use effectively for the same reason that cav is hard to use effectively, in large numbers.

BTW, my opinions are partly due to the fact that I play 3v3 gigantic almost exclusively these days. In such games, there will almost always be significant iron age battles, and here Shang is at a disadvantage. 1v1, 2v2, and smaller maps are a different story, of course.

Spam


Stooge_Farsan
Inactive
posted 11-25-98 10:56 AM ET (US)     25 / 27       
I come back again to that game

Hari is absolutely right - what I was afraid most was a large herde of dshea's minoan compies overwhelming my town before 20 min in game - but dshea hit Hari from 12, not me from 4:30 - becasue Moe's camels were dancing there

Moe was aminly playing gurrila-war in that game - after you(dshea) forced him out of his town, he moved to your old town, there he was pushed away by the yellow summarian. His only safe place was in my walled town, there he build up houses and farms. Moe is a very good player - he hit you early, then when summarian and I was dualing in your old town, he hit yellows backyard - summy was using extensively elphants vs my cats and HAs, so I forced to change to phanlax then centrion backed by cats - Moe destroied yellows farms (with SC ), which had a significant effect on summy. Without Moe's effort, I could be either died in late bronze, or had a long way to beat yellow summy - on the other hand, Moe's army did not play a major role in the real battle field He killed mostly civilians - villagers, women and children - I killed most of those dumbs on southern battle field And the shang on your side could not take down Hari with his camels and SCs - he indeed also sent some SCs over to southern field but only give me and Moe a few more killing counts In general, I have not much chance vs dshea - and Ex-clan are all good players - It was a friendly game and we happen to won by chance. I think we are going to loose badly if we rematch. But it is for fun, I would certainly like to play your guys more, as ally and as opponent.

Anyway, dshea, you are in fact support my point, when you say "My partner shot for iron, but didn't know what to do when he was there. If he had attacked with his 14 minute bronze, ....". IMHO, Moe played great, but "shang" did not "dominate that game" - Moe's shang might have great difficult to play the yellow summy. After defeated the summy, we marched on and destoried the evil shang - kind of funny when two large hittite cats + CA/HAs army and Moe's blue SCs marched from south-west towards north, and shot down everything on the way


Stooge_Farsan

[This message has been edited by Stooge_Farsan (edited 11-25-98).]

mud buddha2
Inactive
posted 11-25-98 04:09 PM ET (US)     26 / 27       
dashingdave, i agree completely. I had __no__ defenses what so ever. i wouldn't do that in a real game, but i just needed some impressive numbers to help the shang cause. Post, nothing in RoR is impossible. Once again, if you want to see me do it, just icq me and we'll do co-op. Oh yeah, when i said in 14, i meant 14:59 or something.


postapokalyptic
Clubman
posted 11-25-98 05:08 PM ET (US)     27 / 27       
LOL.


You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires Heaven | HeavenGames