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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » why iron when bronze army is needed?
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Topic Subject:why iron when bronze army is needed?
kibi
Inactive
posted 01-15-99 02:12 PM ET (US)         
i've quite mad now. i've been playing under a smurf name and the last 3 games i've played i've brozed rush boomers and slaughtered their peons. i've been attacking and holding them at bay 15 or mins after my partners bronze. however, they refuse to send any military whatsoever. why does everyone try to rush to iron? if they send a modest bronze force of camel, cav, or ca's we win on the spot. this bothers me to no end. also, when i tell them of my plans the agree to it but provide no help. the boomer recovers after a while and their economic superiority wins them the game. all i needed was a partner who would also commit to a bronze war. does anyone else think so? another thought, my partners only built 25-30 vils so they can't have an iron and 15+ ha's popping out of 5 ranges


AuthorReplies:
Laelius
Clubman
posted 01-15-99 04:32 PM ET (US)     1 / 13       
This makes a good point. It is very dangerous to go to Iron too early. I have learned through painful experience, that the decision to go to Iron is one of the most crucial of the game. The tremendous cost of 1000 food and 800 precious gold can often be sorely missed and can be more usefully used on very effective bronze units. This is why I now almost always ask my allys if I should go to iron. If they need my help in a bronze unit battle, or feel endangered by a bronze enemy you should wait and develope many extra resources before going Iron. If you go iron without enough additional resources you are extremely vulnerable, and even if you make it to iron you might not be able to stop a large and effective bronze army attack.

Laelius


Sting
Clubman
posted 01-15-99 05:18 PM ET (US)     2 / 13       
if you barely have enough to iron, then you probably shouldnt be ironing. Altho sometimes the jump to iron makes all the difference, especially when playing civs with horse archers. HAs simply chew up CAs, and the HAs can normally win in a 5 to 7 fight (of course this is removing siege)

Not to mention that in iron there is ballistas, catapults with engineering and ballistics, etc etc, alchemy
Scythe chariots...

Basically if you have a good steady stream of food rolling in dont be afraid to iron and take the risk, cause ironing can really turn the tables on the other guys when their cavalry or camels are completely shredded by ballistas and HAs


The_Who
Clubman
posted 01-15-99 06:50 PM ET (US)     3 / 13       
Well with better teamwork you should be able to kill the enemy off. Think about it, you attack them early in bronze and kill off lots of villagers, this slows them down. Meanwhile your allies are fast ironing and booming, so when your bronze rush time frame is over they should be able to help you out within a few minutes. If not then the boomers superoer economy will get you.


The Who

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 01-15-99 08:38 PM ET (US)     4 / 13       
Kibi i share your pain. many game si've had allies attempt to iron, when a bronze war would be more profitable. 30 peons? Damn ya can't iron with that. God are your allies saving up for iron? one thing i've elarnt from playing starcraft(this applies to AoE) is :
If your saving up for something your not getting the right thing and you need a better economy, but if your stockpiling resources, then your not building enough, build more miltary buildings and build more miltary units.

Hope this helps.


neilkaz
Clubman
posted 01-16-99 00:38 AM ET (US)     5 / 13       
Here's an example of a nice carth iron jump in 3v3 hill country. Carth stinks really bad in bronze and has great ele's in iron so fo rmy first carth game I figure let's iron jump !Oh boy I honestly click the iron upgrade at 17 ! But at 18.. 15 enemy units hit my nearly defenceless but spread out town. I ironed at 19:40 but w/out a peon ! ..well played neilkaz... NOT !!!


Baal_Hadad
Inactive
posted 01-16-99 00:50 AM ET (US)     6 / 13       
...an absolute pet peeve of mine, I tell you! I was playing a Zone game last night under another name. It was a 3v3, and I tool attacked my neighboring enemy, then followed with chariot archers. I completely wiped out his woodcutting operations, but he was getting most of his food from fishing boats. He had stockpiled enough wood to put up *some* resistance, but not much. Just when I see that I might finish him off, a bunch of improved bowmen from one of the other enemies walks into my town. Suddenly, I'm on the run. My woodcutters are running all over the map, followed by the imps who have upgraded to compies. The first enemy starts hitting me with CA's again. Only one or two at first, but starting to be more and more. I'm constantly hollering for my teammates because I'm about to be out of this 2v1 match... my woodcutters are still running, my town is protected from the CA's only by towers, I'm yelling for help and I get NOTHING from my teammates-- not a word. We're still leading on points, too... they aren't engaged in battle. After about 10 minutes of desperate struggle for my life, one of my teammates says "IRONING."

I wigged out!!!


BBB5
Inactive
posted 01-16-99 03:53 AM ET (US)     7 / 13       
I agree, and i've won that way

It was minoan vs minoan, i was bronze he was attacking (not much, and the compies weren't massed) All of a sudden it stops.

I start pumping compies. When i reach 15 i move them to his island. He had just ironed, but must have been low on res. because i killed everything in my path, even the two balistas he managed to make (9 range).

I have another group now and start searching his island. I get very lucky and catch a vill building a wall. I kill him quickly and continue my search.

By now he is dead and offering no resistance.

I took advantage of him ironing without having a stockpile of resources, that is why i won that game, and the fact that he never launched a large bronze attack (that i would have died to)

That game was fun too


BBB5


kibi
Inactive
posted 01-16-99 10:36 AM ET (US)     8 / 13       
thanx for the input. on the discussion of me launching a full scale bronze rush and war while my partnter booms and irons, i think it would work well if and only if he booms before he iron jumps. too many time people only build 25 vils and try to iron jump. 25 vils is enough to create a sweet bronze rush army and to have the resources to expand in bronze, but it's not enough to iron jump. imho, i think 35 - 45 vils and boats are needed to be constructed in stone to have the best results. this may lead to a slower iron time, but more resources give u more options and a better army. my partners in the 3 games only built 25 vils (if that) and tried to iron jump. they always reached iron first, but my opponents probably enjoyed the building change so they wouldn't become tired destroying the same house model . i guess the idea i'm trying to state is: if u are planning an iron jump, tell your partner of your plans and build enough vils so u can hit iron with resources. those 4 new, shiny horse archers u just made may have trouble with those 30+ compies that just walked into your town .

kibi
icq 25804848

failure is the stepping stone to success


Spam
Clubman
posted 01-16-99 11:38 AM ET (US)     9 / 13       
I firmly believe that if you're going to do anything other than the standard boom-and-fight-in-bronze strategy, you must check with your teammates first, and let them know what you're up to. This applies both to all-out toolrushing and iron jumping. I just hate it when someone plays sim-city without letting me know about it, and my cries for assistance are met with silence or a simple "sorry". For a teamgame to work you must be able to count on your teammates, and usually I want them to build a goodsized army and fight hard in bronze. The only exception here is on 3v3 Mediterranean where I often prefer that the middleguy ironjumps.

My 2 cents.

Spam


Cl1ff
Inactive
posted 01-17-99 10:03 AM ET (US)     10 / 13       
There are a lot of rookies in the game. You cant do anything about those rookies. Just dont team up with them whenever you meet them again. PS: I HATE ROOKIES!!!!!!!!!


Sting
Clubman
posted 01-17-99 10:32 AM ET (US)     11 / 13       
There aint nothing wrong with rookies. They are just learning the game, cliff honestly tho werent you ever a rookie? I think it is safe to say EVERYONE was a rookie at some point, maybe not a newbie, but at least a rookie

By the way, to avoid them just play rated or play quirinal and advertise "no rookies" on the room name, that usually works for me

[This message has been edited by Sting (edited 01-17-99).]

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 01-17-99 01:45 PM ET (US)     12 / 13       
Like i've said:
"if your saving up to get something then your doing the wrong thing,go get something immdeatly useful and if your stockpiling resources than you need to build more.
This is why i never SAVE up res for upgrades..if i'm like 50 gold from ironing..i still won't do it. why? all that res could be better used on Cavs/camels, or Comps, hoppers and STs. so if i've got 100 food in bronze..i upgrade like hell. I make liek 17 more villies start gettin all the res(even farming)i can. I find myself often being able to iron 4-5 mins after this..as well as support a bronze Navy AND Army. Wicked no?


apocalypse77
Clubman
posted 01-17-99 03:34 PM ET (US)     13 / 13       
I want to say that I am a rookie, but I do have a good idea about the theoretical part of this game. So if you and you're ally are going to iron, the best thing you can probably do is double wall. Or single wall if you are bab or shang. You don't really need towers either. Another thing that i've tested on the computer is what I call "outposting". It works best on a map where there are several small forests. I started doing it to wall in resources, but it could be adjusted so any attacking force would have to go through two or three layers of double wall. This would be great for bab. If anybody tries this e-mail me about it.


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